Stepping up for the females

[Xen Garden]

Yay~ I am so glad I am getting such good feedback for this thread. I was afraid it was just going to start some drama or make people hate me. But I thought it was about time that something was done.

[EmoFox]

Oh Ren, I'm sorry, I didn't mean your comment specifically; just the abundance of them that happened in that thread. It was very unwelcoming, especially since I'd only been part of the forums for a short period of time. And, to be fair, being pregnant, hormonal, and emotional, really doesn't help. Especially with a topic like THAT. :/

*is emo in a corner, T_T*

Wrath, really, thank you. So much. Again.

[Raiden Wolf]

This is a perfect example of what the community needs to start doing to nail problems in the butt before it gets out of hand. As part of the male fur portion of the community its a sad day to hear that our counter parts are being treated with such immature comments and toilet humor by some of our male residents. As a male I apologize on my own behalf as a male in this community to all the wonderful lady furs. Don't lose hope in the community because of a select bunch saying comments. there is still plenty of us who share equality and the value of the person's you are and not base things by gender.

I'd also like to take my hat off to you wrath and thank you for standing up for what you know is right and defending your fellow female furs. so kudo's to you and I would like to hope this opens the door to the community having brighter and more enjoyable times for the future for all persons no matter the gender. ^_^  

[Xen Garden]

Awwe you're so sweet :3 Thank you.

[Ember]

Hi guys,

This is a rather inflammatory subject so I'll try and have some rare restraint. I'm not going to comment much about the topic on hand, but rather I'd like to give an explanation (not a justification) for the behavior.


The first thing you must accept is that the furry fandom is largely made up of gay people- that's a given. But the second thing that you must realize is what TYPE of gay people it is largely made up by. It's not full of scene kids, it's not full of the club type. No, it is full of the socially awkward, and shy type (gay or not)


What this means is that furry for a lot of people is the first place that they can feel comfortable being gay, and exploring gay topics. Furry is the first exposure to a broader social culture for many people. Furry is the first place that they feel safe.

Now I'd like for you to think about gay clubs. Gay clubs come out of the desire of a minority to have a place that they can just be themselves in a safe, and comforting environment that is full of their peers.

The parallel I would like to draw here is what happens when straight people go to gay clubs. For the vast majority of the people there, they have no problem with it. But, for some, they view it as the place getting a little less safe to be gay. They feel the need to stand up for the "values" of their place. The feel the need to make sure that the straight people are treated as outsiders. After all, they could have just as easily gone to one of the many straight bars.

The reason that many gay people go "eww vagina" is the same reason that many straight people talk about tits to one another. It reestablishes their sexuality.

This behavior is drawn out of immaturity and a lack of confidence in one's on sexuality. It's part of being new to one's own sex drive. Complain all you want about it, but it wont go away. Just try and understand WHY people feel the need to make comments like that, and you'll feel better. :)

TL;DR- Anti-women comments come from the same place that "omg check out her tits" comments come from- youth and insecurity.



To the people making the comments:

Suck a dick or something, and I mean that in the nicest way :)

[zenia]

No matter what... there is no justification or "ok reason" that they make these comments. I don't care that they are reaffirming their sexuality. They can do it without insulting an entire gender. >_>

[Ember]

I'd like to give an explanation (not a justification) for the behavior.

[zenia]

*quote*

No, no I realize that you aren't trying to justify it... but if THEY are trying to with something like that... then it isn't acceptable. :P

One point you brought up was that when straight guys say "omg check out her tits!" it is reaffirming their sexuality... I wonder why these gay guys we are talking about just can't say "omg check out his butt/chest/etc!" instead of various "eeeew vagina" comments. It is so much better to be positive than to piss off a bunch of people. XD

[Pat The Fox]

...

The reason that many gay people go "eww vagina" is the same reason that many straight people talk about tits to one another. It reestablishes their sexuality.
...

I disagree with this example. These two things are not parallel.

The equivalent would be a straight male saying how much they are unattracted to guys and the thought of a guy's genitals disgusts them.

Now, as I have said in another thread, the thought that anyone on this board would participate in insulting or degrading of another for their biology is shocking and, in many cases, hypocrisy at its finest.

We're all here trying to find some part of a whole that we feel is missing and that being a furry seems to fill. Let us not ruin that experience for another by throwing around insults and causing a division. Save the venom for those that truly warrant it.

[zenia]

The equivalent would be a straight person male saying how much they are unattracted to guys and the thought of a guy's genitals disgusts them.

Fixed that for ya. XDD

[Pat The Fox]

Fixed that for ya. XDD

Thanks for catching that. Up way too late. I also have this wonderful issue where if I type to much, the scroll goes wonky in the post box so I can't review my post. This is usually why you might see a lot of edits from me.

[Sikhoten_Tiger]

I think people have covered the explicitly sexist portion of this issue fairly well but I'd like to highlight one of the other influences that contribute to this issue and certainly one that will prove more difficult to extinguish. Comments like 'ew vagina' and the like are obviously as previously stated strait up sexist remarks, there are plenty of ways of expressing that you don't enjoy a thing without being so simplistic and insulting. Contrarily comments like 'get in the kitchen' and 'make me a sammich' have a different source in a certain spectrum of internet culture which unfortunately makes a very strong point of being insulting to damn near everyone. Since as a community we're very steeped in internet culture of which these sort of comments are a part in the same way that 'can I haz a cheezeburger' is while I think that trying suppress this sort of thing will prove challanging as not everyone understands the importance of knowing what's appropriate in what context.

[Kithop]

Honestly I see two sentiments here - the guys that feel the need to try and reaffirm their sexuality in front of their peers ('eww vagina'), and the misogynist 'make me a sammich' type comments.  Now, I can agree that taking things out of context is bad - like it or not, many people throw the word 'gay' around to describe something they don't like without thinking about or meaning to offend, and there's a whole internet subculture around (half?)-joking misogyny, but that doesn't mean we just throw our hands up and give up trying to fight it. :p

I'm comfortable in my sexuality - I'm straight, but I'll talk about penis and dryhump my bi or gay male friends (in front of the girls, of course, because they like it. :p).  I like my penis. But in my case, only MY penis. XD *shrug* I think we can all agree though, that trying to keep the maturity level up a bit is a good thing; cracking those kinds of jokes may make that subset feel more at ease with their group, but alienate others, and the last thing we need is to start dividing ourselves up again over things like this.

[Temrin]

Thank you Wrath, for starting this thread, and thank you to everyone who's being responsibly mature about this topic. It is a mind bender to see comments as described on the forums, specially on the Bi thread. I was quite taken aback at such comments but didn't think much of it after the fact. (I see a LOT of these comments around the net and IRL that i guess i just roll my eyes and ignore them after the initial shock.) Those comments just scream insecurity and immaturity, as others have stated as well. I know people can do very silly things when they feel insecure or are just immature, though, i hope those who leave comments like that, begin to realize how much its actually going to impact their social lives. If they have a problem with females, so be it but you needn't be insultingly verbal about it. Your just going to make people dislike you or at least be vary wary of you. I know a few people who have problems being around a certain sex because they've had bad thing happen to them in the past. That, in itself, is trauma induced insecurity and is a little more understandable then just reaffirming their sexual status. I don't mean just being dumped by a person of the opposite sex either. I mean real, over the top, abuse.

I know everyone takes things differently in life (Specially in regards to what trauma is to each person is different), that's where a little patience comes in handy, but i do agree, i dislike hearing the kitchen jokes and having my girl parts degraded. Tbh, i hate having a vagina. Who REALLY wants to bleed for 7 days (each women is different) right? Haha. But, i'm happy with who i am, comfortable with myself. I hope the people making degrading comments will come to be confident and secure about themselves as to not do that anymore. Theres already enough hate in this world.

Again, Thanks Wrath! <3

[Dinsu]

I haven't been here for that long so perhaps its different with furries, but in my experience, sexism is pretty much dead, and most of the time when someone says something sexist, its not meant as offensive, its just supposed to be funny, even if its not actually funny in the slightest.

Not trying to attack you or anything.. But I would try telling this to the 90,000 or so women who get raped every year in the United States alone. (taking in to account that a VERY small amount are actually tallied and reported to the police due to shame, threats, etc.) I also thought Canada ranked very high on the reported rape per capita list. (don't pull the 'women can rape people too' thing.. I believe something over 95% of rapes are male initiated.)
Not to mention the millions more who have experienced some sort of physical assault from a man.

I'm sure if any of you know someone who's been raped or molested that it changes their life forever. Sexism should not be taken lightly because it turns the humanness of a woman and turns it into a concept. To reduce the aliveness of another being to a concept is a form of violence.

Thank you for addressing this topic Wrath. This is the main reason why I never end up getting too involved with this community. I just don't feel safe.. Mostly because sexist comments REALLY hurt my feelings. D: Sometimes it feels like the only people who have the time of day for me in BCfurries are the straight males.

Don't hate on yourselves, ladies.
The female being is a thing of beauty. We are the holy vessel and the bringer of life, whether we choose to bear children or not. There is nothing different between the human vagina and the human nose, hand or foot. It's just a body part that we've all been desensitized to and taught to feel shameful of because of society. EVERYTHING is crawling with bacteria. It's called life.
We are born with a deep and magical connection to nature and animals and an extreme sensitivity to empathy and emotions. We are intellectual on an introverted sense but also have a deep ability for language and communication. Unless we learn to have infallible pride and comfort in ourselves, we will have challengers.
Not to say that the male being isn't a thing of beauty. It is. For different reasons.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we're all beings BORN as men or women. We all started out in the womb as the same gender.
Not only should we embrace our similarities but we should revel in our differences. It's contrast that makes our world interesting to live in.

I am a human being. Not the concept of a human being.
You are too!

lol. End rant.
Let's be all about love, guys!