BC Furries

I would want to know who it is, if he's a troublemaker. if i am having an event, I certainly don't want ANY underage drinking or sexual behavior, with adults.

:/ I would definitely want to know who it is. I dont host very many public events (and honestly, its for reasons like what you posted, that i keep it private.)
I'd rather avoid all that bs if i happen to want to organize something.

You say its based on previous behavior, but this person wasn't of age to drink i am assuming by the title.
I probably would of asked them to leave and if they did not, warn that i might ask some of the passing authorities to get involved if they could not be mature about it. -shrugs-
EDIT: doing these kinds of things is what will get them banned from local events. So i hope they smarten up.

well if it were me I'd ask the person to leave if you made it VERY clear that they are not welcome and if you kept ignoring it he's just gonna keep showing up and give people the wrong idea with minors around that should not be.

and I think I may know who your refering from your past events (I'm not good with remembering faces)

Throwing my 2 cents in here (and having a bit of background insight into the situation that raised this post)...

If a person is not welcomed to an event... and the person who brought that person knew before bringing them that they weren't welcome to the event... a couple of things come to mind:
1) the person who was asked NOT to attend is being particularly disrespectful to the host of the event by disregarding this request and showing up anyway
2) the person who brought this person, knowing they had been asked not to attend is being equally, if not more, disrespectful to the host of the event

One would think that if this were to occur again the host would be well within their rights to ask all involved to leave... and advise them that they may not be welcome at future events due to their disregard for such things.

But that's just MY opinion ;)

I think it is imperative to out this individual, and any other individuals that act in a manner not acceptable to attend furmeets organized on these forums; whether they are public, semi-private or even completely private gatherings. I say this because some people may be interested in hosting meets but they may not know a lot of people here either because they are new, or aren't as involved with the BC Furry community as others... and if this individual shows up and causes problems they probably would be turned off from hosting other meets in the future.

Regarding your situation with this person, I think you had every right to turn this person away regardless of how far away they traveled from, because like you said, you made it perfectly clear to them that they were not invited to attend due to their history at past meets. Plus, bringing minors to a 19+ even clearly shows ill intent. Honestly, from the sounds of it his presence was not only disrespectful to you but to the BC Fur community as a whole.

Unfortunately there are just people out there that like to stur up trouble, especially in the furry community, and the community as a whole needs to band together to prevent incidences that may jeopardize future meets.

Having read all the other comments, I think you should not publicly "out" this person. I do think that you should have turned away them and their friends at your event, even though is was a 2hr drive out of town. The friends could have been given a welcome to your events on the condition that they don't allow the person in question to "tag" along.

I called the Vancouver info line 3-1-1 and they said if that person shows up at a party and they KNOW that they are not welcome then you should call the police(NON emergency line) and have them removed from the premises.

Hope that helps!!

knowing the person of whom the topic is about, and having spoken with the others in the car, it is my understanding that they did not know that 'he' was not permitted.  granted he admits to reading an email 'recommending' (his words) that he not attend.  so on that note i hold no blame to the ride giver and other  passenger.

each situation requires a different application of regrets and punishments.  in this case to have sent him away might have put him at risk, and to have sent his ride with him would have been unfair to the innocent.  had this happened near transit then a 'thanks for coming, sorry you have to leave so soon' is justified.

to 'out' him is unfair but his name and reputation will get around.

: tokar  July 15, 2012, 11:01:34 -06:00
knowing the person of whom the topic is about, and having spoken with the others in the car, it is my understanding that they did not know that 'he' was not permitted.  granted he admits to reading an email 'recommending' (his words) that he not attend.  so on that note i hold no blame to the ride giver and other  passenger.

each situation requires a different application of regrets and punishments.  in this case to have sent him away might have put him at risk, and to have sent his ride with him would have been unfair to the innocent.  had this happened near transit then a 'thanks for coming, sorry you have to leave so soon' is justified.

to 'out' him is unfair but his name and reputation will get around.

1) The e-mail to this person was very specific and stated that he was not permitted to attend this event
2) at least one other person in the transportation vehicle knew that he was not permitted - therefore, I lay 25% of the blame on this person as well as 75% on the person in question.
Clearly, there is a question about the lack of respect for the host of this event (me). There was definite knowledge of 'non-permission' in the vehicle.
I cannot 'babysit' at my events. This is why I ask people to request permission to attend. The direction this person was heading was reminiscent of CampFur (the unrestricted drinking of this minor - of Many types of alcohol (which can only lead to bad things for him and the people around him) - and that was exactly what I was trying to avoid. Almost always, this is not an issue. This person not only ignored my request for him to not attend, but neglected to even ask for permission to attend! I did check and it clearly states on the original post that you must request permission to attend. If that's not respecting the host, I don't know what is!!!

Truth is, Gizmo, you've tried everything that you could've done without laying the legal arm as a last resort, but given that whoever this person is persistent beyond your control, I'd say you really have no choice but to stop the situation from festering further.

: tokar  July 15, 2012, 11:01:34 -06:00an email 'recommending' (his words) that he not attend.

My last input into this topic... if a host 'recommends' that you not come to their event... I'm sure you can see where I'm going here ;)

Make things black and white for the individual(s) you are addressing.  I know the tendency to tiptoe around an issue with the intention of not hurting peoples' feelings, but situations like this require direct and to-the-point communication of the matter.  A "No BS" policy needs to be enforced with this kind of thing.  The person needs to be told:

1) They are not invited, and thus, not welcome at a particular event.  (Sounds like you had this pretty well covered.)
2) If they arrive uninvited, they will be asked to leave.
3) Further, if they refuse to leave, RCMP or local police will be notified to have them removed from the premises.

Maybe, to try and nip it in the bud BEFORE the day of the event, a request should be made that anybody providing transportation for anyone BUT him/herself is required to disclose the names of the individuals coming with him/her.

Or perhaps it's worth discussing an administrative method (http://www.bcfurries.com/forum/index.php?topic=5898.0) for dealing with this issue.

: Neox  July 17, 2012, 05:22:02 -06:00
Make things black and white for the individual(s) you are addressing.  I know the tendency to tiptoe around an issue with the intention of not hurting peoples' feelings, but situations like this require direct and to-the-point communication of the matter.  A "No BS" policy needs to be enforced with this kind of thing.  The person needs to be told:

1) They are not invited, and thus, not welcome at a particular event.  (Sounds like you had this pretty well covered.)
2) If they arrive uninvited, they will be asked to leave.
3) Further, if they refuse to leave, RCMP or local police will be notified to have them removed from the premises.

Maybe, to try and nip it in the bud BEFORE the day of the event, a request should be made that anybody providing transportation for anyone BUT him/herself is required to disclose the names of the individuals coming with him/her.

Or perhaps it's worth discussing an administrative method (http://www.bcfurries.com/forum/index.php?topic=5898.0) for dealing with this issue.

Thank you for also mentioning to have them removed by the police.

Thank you Kitten for mentioning the removal with the authorities suggestion if I ever do host an event which I would love to one day perhaps when I'm in a bigger place I'll have to keep that in mind if it comes to that

I would have probably kicked them out.  And made it absolutely clear, in no uncertain terms as to why they were not going to be allowed to stay, that being that the one that was not allowed to be there didn't tell them that he was banned from it (Or told them bu t they didn't care and brought him anyway.)


Next time, make it clear that anyone that shows up uninvited will be kicked out.  Any driver bringing someone that is not invited in their vehicle may also be kicked out as well.  Period.

I know that the one who drove them to this event was completely unaware of any prior conflict between the individuals attending this meet. I have to say that not only was it unfair of said individuals to show up to this meet when they were told not to, it was also wrong of said individuals to take advantage of the driver and weigh the blame on him for this and potentially wreck his enjoyment of such an event. Their actions also jeopardized his potential to attend future events, which is completely unfair of them.

And I do agree with you that if this were the case I would've sent the individuals home regardless of distance. I understand completely. A function such as this is meant so that everyone enjoys it.

But yeah, please don't blame the guy who drove them. Thanks~

You are driving down across the border with someone, and it takes about 2 hours to get to the border.  It turns out that the person you were driving down with isn't allowed across the border and they are refusing him entry.  Furthermore, they KNEW they weren't allowed across the border (and were hoping no one would check or something.)

What do you, as the driver, do?  Do you leave him at the border and continue on your way, or turn back and abandon your trip?

: Ravenwood  July 25, 2012, 01:28:12 -06:00
You are driving down across the border with someone, and it takes about 2 hours to get to the border.  It turns out that the person you were driving down with isn't allowed across the border and they are refusing him entry.  Furthermore, they KNEW they weren't allowed across the border (and were hoping no one would check or something.)

What do you, as the driver, do?  Do you leave him at the border and continue on your way, or turn back and abandon your trip?

I'd leave him there with cab-fare, and tell him he has to pay me back when I return. (Unless he has enough for a cab, in which case, he can just sit there and fuck himself.)

: Neox  July 25, 2012, 05:34:22 -06:00
I'd leave him there with cab-fare, and tell him he has to pay me back when I return. (Unless he has enough for a cab, in which case, he can just sit there and fuck himself.)

I'd say throw em on public transit. A lot easier to scrounge up a few $ for that. Then if they didn't pay you back it wouldn't be the end of the world either...

: Ravenwood  July 25, 2012, 01:28:12 -06:00
You are driving down across the border with someone, and it takes about 2 hours to get to the border.  It turns out that the person you were driving down with isn't allowed across the border and they are refusing him entry.  Furthermore, they KNEW they weren't allowed across the border (and were hoping no one would check or something.)

What do you, as the driver, do?  Do you leave him at the border and continue on your way, or turn back and abandon your trip?

Ravenwoods example actually happened to me.  i wasn't told until the border guards were finished with their interrogations and searches that my passenger wasn't permitted in their country.  as a result of doing a so called friend a favour, i have been banned from the us for life.  comes under the classification of human trafficing. 

not that i really want to go to the us, it is just that even if i did want to go i can't.

: tokar  July 31, 2012, 12:27:46 -06:00
Ravenwoods example actually happened to me.  i wasn't told until the border guards were finished with their interrogations and searches that my passenger wasn't permitted in their country.  as a result of doing a so called friend a favour, i have been banned from the us for life.  comes under the classification of human trafficing. 

not that i really want to go to the us, it is just that even if i did want to go i can't.

It's pretty amazing what one thoughtless minor can do. I can almost guarantee that person never once thought about the implications to you.
It really is upsetting that one person can call into question, the behavior of many. I have events all the time with little / no incident. Then ONE person can ruin events for others. I don't want to ban underage people from my events as 99% of them behave appropriately (sometimes, more mature than the adults).
Watching the forums over the past week shows that this issue has not gone away and this SAME person has caused issues at yet another furry party. Maybe it's time we announce this person for what he/she really is so all know and can plan appropriately?
Thoughts?

Taking this discussion on a slight detour, I'd like to commend everyone who has posted in this thread and also knows the identity of the figure in question. That no one has rashly, or emotionally, jumped at the chance to "out" the individual voices exactly the level of maturity we all hope to see displayed, and though that person's identity may come to light later due to some democratic decision, you all deserve to take a moment of pride at not voluntarily losing your cool, and waiting for that moment to come.

'Cause, you know, lynch mobs are only fun on Saturdays. :P

: Ja'Nathun  August 01, 2012, 04:10:32 -06:00
Taking this discussion on a slight detour, I'd like to commend everyone who has posted in this thread and also knows the identity of the figure in question. That no one has rashly, or emotionally, jumped at the chance to "out" the individual voices exactly the level of maturity we all hope to see displayed, and though that person's identity may come to light later due to some democratic decision, you all deserve to take a moment of pride at not voluntarily losing your cool, and waiting for that moment to come.

'Cause, you know, lynch mobs are only fun on Saturdays. :P

I agree with you. Well done for not outing this person.

I don't think they should be outed publicly anyway. Tho may be PM the organizers of 19+ events to have them keep an eye out for this person.

: Ja'Nathun  August 01, 2012, 04:10:32 -06:00
Taking this discussion on a slight detour, I'd like to commend everyone who has posted in this thread and also knows the identity of the figure in question. That no one has rashly, or emotionally, jumped at the chance to "out" the individual voices exactly the level of maturity we all hope to see displayed, and though that person's identity may come to light later due to some democratic decision, you all deserve to take a moment of pride at not voluntarily losing your cool, and waiting for that moment to come.

'Cause, you know, lynch mobs are only fun on Saturdays. :P

I have to agree with this.  There is a part deep down inside of me that yearns to know for the craving of drama and the like(I dont do anything with the information mind you, no gossip ect), but I do know that the right thing to do is not to publically out the person.  It is definately something that should be dealt with usually on a per person basis, or at least a group of people to keep it out of the 'public' eye.  Only bad can really stem from it.

As interesting as Drama is, it ends up becoming a huge hassle for everyone involved.

My question is, if this is to be done privately (which honestly, this person has caused trouble. I personally feel they should understand that what they are doing is bad. and i dont think they will understand from private means. since they were told not to come, but went anyways. :/ i mean. they obviously dont give two sh**s) Who should be responsible for making sure that people who are hosting 19+/wet events know about this person? Honestly? I don't think it should be any one person's responsibility to keep others informed of this. Other people shouldn't be covering for a person who obviously doesn't care about how they effect the rest of us.

Thats my personal opinion. They've shown that warning and telling them not to show up wont work. So what now? Just let them continue doing it if they decide to show up elsewhere again even though they aren't supposed too? What if the person/people who know about this person forgets to warn someone and they show up there? It shouldn't be on the shoulders of the people affected to cover this persons stupidity in public. -.-'

just my two cents anyways. I dont like drama. I hate it. It causes a lot of issues when there need not be. But i feel that covering up someones purposeful 'mistake' when they know -exactly- what they are doing is only going to impair events in the future and cause more unneeded drama and in the case of some scenarios mentioned above, a liability to others well being and reputation. (yes, i know that particular event was not based on this one person that i am aware. BUT, it could happen and it could ruin things for other people. That is not fair to those with the generosity to offer rides, etc. That just makes me paranoid about who i travel with now. :/ )

I dont want it to have to come down to outing the person in public. embarrassment is not fun. but they know what they are doing. And they know they weren't supposed to show up. So why should we have to cover up what they are doing when they know exactly what they are doing? It just doesnt make sense for responsible people to have to take the rap for what an irresponsible person is doing. Darwinism please. You do something stupid, you should deal with the consequences. This is why a lot of people dont understand when they do things wrong these days is because are so concerned over keeping the peace when keeping the peace and keeping things silent really only causes more issues. (with the exception of if the person legitimately went "oh shit i am so sorry!" and doesnt do it again. :/ Its not hard to understand that 19+ events are 19+. )

I know that sounds harsh. but yeah. -shrugs-

: Temrin  August 01, 2012, 05:57:19 -06:00
My question is, if this is to be done privately (which honestly, this person has caused trouble. I personally feel they should understand that what they are doing is bad. and i dont think they will understand from private means. since they were told not to come, but went anyways. :/ i mean. they obviously dont give two sh**s) Who should be responsible for making sure that people who are hosting 19+/wet events know about this person? Honestly? I don't think it should be any one person's responsibility to keep others informed of this. Other people shouldn't be covering for a person who obviously doesn't care about how they effect the rest of us.

Thats my personal opinion. They've shown that warning and telling them not to show up wont work. So what now? Just let them continue doing it if they decide to show up elsewhere again even though they aren't supposed too? What if the person/people who know about this person forgets to warn someone and they show up there? It shouldn't be on the shoulders of the people affected to cover this persons stupidity in public. -.-'

just my two cents anyways. I dont like drama. I hate it. It causes a lot of issues when there need not be. But i feel that covering up someones purposeful 'mistake' when they know -exactly- what they are doing is only going to impair events in the future and cause more unneeded drama and in the case of some scenarios mentioned above, a liability to others well being and reputation. (yes, i know that particular event was not based on this one person that i am aware. BUT, it could happen and it could ruin things for other people. That is not fair to those with the generosity to offer rides, etc. That just makes me paranoid about who i travel with now. :/ )

I dont want it to have to come down to outing the person in public. embarrassment is not fun. but they know what they are doing. And they know they weren't supposed to show up. So why should we have to cover up what they are doing when they know exactly what they are doing? It just doesnt make sense for responsible people to have to take the rap for what an irresponsible person is doing. Darwinism please. You do something stupid, you should deal with the consequences. This is why a lot of people dont understand when they do things wrong these days is because are so concerned over keeping the peace when keeping the peace and keeping things silent really only causes more issues. (with the exception of if the person legitimately went "oh shit i am so sorry!" and doesnt do it again. :/ Its not hard to understand that 19+ events are 19+. )

I know that sounds harsh. but yeah. -shrugs-

Could not have stated it more precisely!!! I whole hardheartedly agree!!!

Is it just being under 19 and showing up that this person is doing wrong? Or are they doing something annoying/bad/whatever once they arrive (if they get to stay)? I am just curious... but don't need to know the identity of the person as I am not likely to move to the mainland and host any meets.

as far as i've read, they were drinking underage in a place where cops frequent.  Which puts all the people there at risk of being responsible for this person.

Ah I see. That is bad enough.

Personally, even if drinking isn't going on (by the of-age people) at a private indoor party... I am uncomfortable when minors are around. It is ok in an outdoor, picnic type setting, just not indoors. XD I prefer alcohol-free gatherings anyway.

@zenia

Not to mention the legal implications of minors drinking alcohol in a public area that is HEAVILY patrolled by authorities.

The first post shows the situation that happened. Indoors or outdoors its still bad and still can have bad implications on the people there.

: zenia  August 01, 2012, 07:46:54 -06:00
Ah I see. That is bad enough.

Personally, even if drinking isn't going on (by the of-age people) at a private indoor party... I am uncomfortable when minors are around. It is ok in an outdoor, picnic type setting, just not indoors. XD I prefer alcohol-free gatherings anyway.

The person in question is also NOTORIOUS for stealing other peoples' alcohol when they're not looking, or attempting to mooch.  He's done it to me, my boyfriend, and several other friends of mine.

: zenia  August 01, 2012, 07:09:11 -06:00Is it just being under 19 and showing up that this person is doing wrong?

The person in question is doing more than just being under-age to warrant the discussion. They a) went to an of-age event while under-age after b) being asked not to attend due to previous behaviour at other events including, amongst other things, theft of other peoples' property (alcohol, food, etc).

Needless to say... without "outing" the individual here... enough people are aware of who it is from their own experience in either being at one or both of the events in question and seeing it or being at one or both of the events in question and having been the target of said theft. Others know due to the inevitable word-of-mouth that occurs as a result of being a d-bag who steals from people and abuses their generosity. Yet others have likely figured it out based on the threads the discussions have occurred in and the events coinciding with them, etc.

In the end, the only thing I will say at this juncture is this... MOST of us in the 'community' are fairly generous and giving (from what I've seen). If you're not abusing it, many of us will have ZERO problem with giving some food or drink or w/e if asked for due to running short on your own supply or w/e. When you make no effort to supply yourself and rely solely on the hand-outs of others, you are a mooch and not welcomed. When you abuse the trust of others by taking from them without asking, you are a thief and not welcomed. When you are asked not to attend a function because your prior behaviour warrants that you be excluded by the host and come anyway without telling the person who drove you 2 hours out of their way that you weren't welcome... you are an ass-hat and honestly... who wants to deal with that?

: Neox  August 01, 2012, 09:21:09 -06:00
The person in question is also NOTORIOUS for stealing other peoples' alcohol when they're not looking, or attempting to mooch.  He's done it to me, my boyfriend, and several other friends of mine.

Ah yup. I wasnt 100% sure who it was. But after that comment, yup. i know who it is. XD -oh the stories-

I think its safe to say.  Lets keep minors out of the 19+ events.  Be respectful to one another and if you cant expect to be excluded...  Simple as that.  Now I think we have sat on this topic for long enough, lets walk away from the drama and the bull, and move on to being our happier furry selves again ^=^

Lol people can still be happy and enjoying themselves even while talking about stuff like this. Most of this was a very mature conversation. As people have previously stated, no one jumped the gun to out this person, we were getting opinions stated and dealing with it in a very good manner. (the finally of this has yet to really be determined. of weather this person should be outed or not) Its not really drama when talking about it in a mature manner. Drama is the fact that the person did it in the first place XD.

To be honest, if said person made a dick move to show up with others in hopes of gaining admittance after being explicitly told that they were not welcome, I would have sent just that person away and let the others decide if they wanted to attend or not.

i know who this person is and i have been in contact with the person in question.  he says he is going to withdraw from community activities for awhile. he is not proud of what he did.

so many of us know who it is yet to out him will not serve any specific purpose.  he has agreed not to attend any functions without an escort or should i say - handler.

although he is a big boy, he is not yet mature for his age.  he means well and wants to fit in but he tries to do it all at once, which always fucks up.  he shouldn't consume alcohol even when he is of age.  he needs guidance and not to be ostracized.

remember the saying ,,,,,, it takes a village to raise a child.  and he is still a child.

as long as this person understands what they did, and have done in the past, is inappropriate and that if it is done again people wont take it so lightly, then fine. As well, they do not say -they are sorry- and then do it again. If this person needs a "handler" then i do agree, they shouldn't be drinking at all.

Any harm in naming names? I'm planning on hosting an even in the not so distant future. Also, whats the generally accepted practice for dealing with these people in this community? I'm the kind of person that is comfortable correcting thieves.

Well its good to see that things are settling down and resolution has been made as well as acknowledgement from the individual in question...  I hope that they succeed in correcting themselves and that we can all continue to be happy with many more awesome events to come.

To sum it up (as this thread HAS been going for a while now)...

Let's just say that opinions differ on how to handle it. In the end, if you have an event and someone shows that has been asked not to, ask them to leave.

As for the behaviours in question... Well my prior posts are general (not aimed at any one person) and express my thoughts on that pretty clearly ;) If you go to an event don't be a mooch, don't be a thief, don't make an ass of yourself and you should get along just fine with most of the community at large :D

As for outing an individual, I don't think that's necessary here and I'm sure time will tell as to whether their wish to become better is sincere :)

Im rather curious now who this person is I have my suspicions who it might be.

I am happy to hear that the person in question has acknowledged the issue and is willing to work at fixing them!

Tho I think that if they "need" a handler/escort in order to attend 19+ events or events with alcohol then they should not be there in the first place. I understand that he is wanting to continue to attend with guidance but if we need to baby them/watch their every move then that is asking too much.

I agree with you whole heartedly Kitten.

I do agree with kitten as well not only would the supervisor/handler would not only be able to enjoy the event since that person would have to keep their eyes on the person in question for the duration of the event and not to mention we would too have to keep an eye on him so I think personally that he shouldn't be attending at a 19+ event period until the person in question can fully control himself when it comes to other people's alcohol.

It is good that he has recognized that it is an issue and wants to fix them that is all well and good but a handler/escort I feel is too much to ask currently at this point in time. Only the person in question can fix this issue for himself and I do certainly hope that they do fix this so they can continue to attend future events without making these kind of issues come up even if that includes medical assistance or help from professionals to address the problem.

kitten   it would not be the community watching him. it would be the one that volunteers to be his handler** for the event.  but that won't matter for awhile as he has said he is taking a sabbatical away from furry events.  i think that by the time he returns he will have reached his 19th b'day making him able to attend the 19+ events but he still has to still to "repay his debt to the fur community."
he knows it will take time to regain the respect that has been lost.

**handler .... person with him but not a .... sitter. 

Aye, Tokar, you have a point. It wouldn't make sense for him to come back and get back to his own self once he turns 19. In the end, once you isolate the age from legal implications...you get a number, just a statistical number.

After all, one can be 19, and still act like a total juvenile...but this will be a digressive topic as a side-order to this discussion at hand.

: tokar  August 09, 2012, 01:23:26 -06:00
kitten   it would not be the community watching him. it would be the one that volunteers to be his handler** for the event.  but that won't matter for awhile as he has said he is taking a sabbatical away from furry events.  i think that by the time he returns he will have reached his 19th b'day making him able to attend the 19+ events but he still has to still to "repay his debt to the fur community."
he knows it will take time to regain the respect that has been lost.

**handler .... person with him but not a .... sitter. 

Fine let's use the term escort. If a person needs an escort to be with them to ensure thst they are not doing stupid things then even if the person is over 19 they should still not be allowed at pro-alcohol meets/events. I also don't think that is is right to ask the person bringing them to watch over them. That means that they will start attending events with out an escort. What then? Should they be asked to leave because they don't have their "buddy" there to watch them?

If they need a "escort, handler or party buddy" then they should not be attending a pro-alcohol event NO MATTER HOW OLD THEY ARE. If you need to be watched then you shouldn't be near alcohol. period. end of story.

Again, i agree with Kitten.

Its not fair to ask someone to watch over them. Even if they volunteer.
As well, if they aren't responsable enough and need someone to make sure they aren't doing stupid things, then they just shouldn't be going. -.-'

The "escort" cannot watch over a person every moment. Not to mention, in the hussle and bussle of most meets, its VERY easy to loose someone in a crowd of people. So what then? Is it the volunteers fault if the other person does something stupid? Even then, the "community" would have to watch him and make sure he's with his escort and if he's not, then to keep an eye on said person because they arent with said handler. So others would most likely still get dragged into this. Tokar, you said the handler isnt going to babysit this person. So whats the point of having this handler around anyways? They arent -sitting- so therefore the person can still do what they were doing before. And what? the handler is just going to slap their wrist if they do something out of line? Like, i dont see the point of a handler if its not to babysit. -shrugs-. The point is to be watching said person and preventing them from doing the things they were doing before. If you arent babysitting, you arent really preventing. You just might happen to see them do something and tell them to stop it. Where do you draw the line? if they do something they shouldnt be, I would want the handler to take them home. But then, how is that fair to the handler? Its not. plain and simple. But if you let them stay around, the message isnt going to really get across that they need to stop.

So yeah. Some clarification would be nice. because i dont see the point of a handler if its not to hand hold this person and babysit them. -shrugs-

I agree with both Temrin and Kitten as I was trying to say before

    It's not fair to have someone watch a person through an entire event because that person would most likely not have any fun and with a crowd it is hard to keep a constant eye on the person the "escort" would be watching over. The idea of the "escort" is to prevent these things from happening but what if it continues what then? does the "handler" just give a slap on the wrist?. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable bringing alcohol considering how expensive some of it can be to events like that but I'm not sure about the rest of you in this sort of scenario.

    as I said before if a person can't control themselves over other people's alcohol especially when they are under aged which puts not only the host but everyone else at the event at risk if the police decide to show up which is certainly something that could happen if something gets out of hand. To put it simple they should not attend a 19+ event with or without one unless they are accountable for their own actions end of story.

I don't even know why we are still going on about this

: Choco  August 10, 2012, 01:50:00 -06:00
I don't even know why we are still going on about this

This :/
The outcome of bringing said person in with a handler could end up just as bad as before. This person needs to grow up, physically and mentally, before coming to 19+ events. A handler, and the people at the meet should not have to watch this person or be responsible for them. They are responsible for themselves and if they cannot be, and put the people around them in possible trouble with authorities (not to mention possibly taking wheat does not belong to them) then they should not show up, period. I understand the want to still join in on the -fun- of the 19+ meetups but -good- fun can only happen when being responsible. There are plenty of non alcoholic events and if they can handle themselves there, then they can, by all means, go to those. It does not take alcohol to make a night fun and worthwhile.

nuff said. This situation is why i hated hosting meets at Furholmes and why i host private get togethers now. :/ You never know who's going to do something stupid.