The problem with the word "Furry"

[Pat The Fox]

I'd like to share my thoughts with the board, one that I've had a fair amount of time to ponder in trying to define my interests.

I have a particular problem with the word "Furry" and I think it is an abused word and many people use it very incorrectly. Furry should not be used to describe a genre, a theme, or even be used to describe anthropomorphic animals. This might be a bold statement to make, but I hope you'll read on and consider my argument.

I think the problem with the term 'Furry' is the word 'Furry' itself needs a proper definition. I think the need to have a proper definition and applying that word properly is quite paramount to the fanbase as I believe a huge problem with the word Furry is people trying to use the term Furry on just about anything in any way they please to try and bring that item in to the cultural sphere. People will describe Bugs Bunny as Furry, Madagascar as Furry and a host of other anthropomorphic creatures or things that have anthro creatures in them as Furry. This I believe is an incredible abuse of the word.

For purposes of making my argument I offer the following as what I think is a pretty all encompasing definition of Furry: "Furry is term for a person or group of people who have a deep appreciation of anthropomorphic creatures". We certainly could nit-pick finer details of the definition but I think at the core this is a rather encompassing definition. What this means is that Furry is the act of an entity appreciating anthropomorphs at a deep level. This appreciation can take the form of a person drawing art, writing, costuming, going to conventions, or whatnot, but this requires an appreciative entity performing an act.

Now, by defining it as an act a person take automatically strips anthropomorphic creatures of the label of furry. An anthropomorphic animal isn't an act, it is a type of creature. The appreciation of this type of creature is furry, but being an Anthropomorph is not Furry. Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse, Star Fox, these things are not Furry, they are anthropomorphs. Also, they (probably) aren't even made with anthropomorphs in mind, making it farther from Furry; Bugs Bunny was made more for conveying a social commentary and dark humor to the public in a light hearted way; The creator of an Orangina commercial did not create a piece of media about scantily clad animal creatures splashing around in their drink as an appreciation of anthropomorphic creatures, they made it to sell Orangina; but I'll touch on the creation aspect next.

When one creates a piece of art, they create an inanimate object on a surface like a piece of paper, or text on a screen or form from bits of fabric. This material and created item does not have any appreciation of its own, it has no emotions, no feelings, no opinions and no thoguhts (we hope). A costume of an anthro creature is a costume of an anthro creature. A drawing of an anthro creature is a drawing of an anthro creature. Art can have a meaning tacked on by it's creator and even meaning tacked on or altered by the viewer, but the piece itself is void of any affinity or thoughts. The art may be made by a furry, the act of making it may be furry, the act of viewing it may be furry, but the art itself is an anthropomorphc creature in some genre of some theme and should not be called Furry.

Furries are one of a very unique set of fans of having a label attached to them. Most forms of fans are just that, fans. A person who likes Star Wars is a Star Wars fan, a person who likes anime is an anime fan, a person who likes comics is a comic fan, etc., etc. The term Furry should be used like the term 'Trekkie' or 'Gamer', both terms also for a type of person who enjoy a certain thing to a deep level. When a Trekkie makes some Star Trek art, it is Sci-fi, with a theme of Star Trek with their (or other) characters. This is because a genre is not defined by the author, but the content of what is being made. A genre is all similar styles, such as rock in music, or dub step. Also, a theme is not defined by the author, it is instead the context of the story. If you are making a story about people who like anthros, the theme might be furry, but if you are making a story about an anthro going on an adventure, it is an adventure theme. In general, one should be saying a Furry is making a piece of art of X genre, with Y theme that has anthros in it, not a furry is making furry art in a furry universe with a furry in it (furry furry furry). Even without my definition argument, can it be seen how silly that sentence sounds?

If furry as a fanbase wants to mature, we need to have a proper definition of what we are and ensure that defintion is properly applied. Any term for any group or object that can't properly be defined has a hard time existing because more structured definitions take place. The same goes for a group or sub-group. If you can't define what you're group is about, you can't draw a boundary to be a group.

These are just some thoughts I felt I should share and would love comment on them.

[Sevrin]

I happen to like the way the word furry is used, perhaps it would be confusing for someone outside the community who is just learning about furries, but the versatility of the word makes it more useful, and sure you can get sentences that are similar to "fuck the fucking fuckers" with all the ways you can use the word furry, but that doesn't make it a worse word to use for any of the contexts.
You shouldn't look at the furry community the way you do, it's not just people who appreciate anthropomorphic animals, there are many furs that don't even like anthros! and it's not really a fandom either, some people call it that, but it's more than just a fandom, it's a community, it's a way of life, it's an artstyle, it's people who identify with animals or as different than normal humans, it's people who believe they ARE animals, it's people with a particular taste in porn, and it's many more things, it's not a fandom it's... something different, it's.... furry.

[Temrin]

wasnt able to read much of the post as i am falling asleep.

But i wanted to say, that ia gree with you on the "people using the word furry in the wrong context."

The reason why "furry" is such a negative conotation is because of people using it wrong. I agree that it should not be used to describe parts of the fandom or even the widely used misconception of things that are outside or -above- just the fandom. like anthropomorphic creatures. When i hear people comment on art going "I really like your furry!" I'm like *CRINGES*. NO. It is an anthropormorphic character. its not a "furry"... "Furry" is used to describe a person who is involved int  he fandom. not things that are outside things but are interests to the fandom. It irks the crap out of me when people use the term furry for EVERYTHING. I wish i could slap people with a dictionary and embed the knowledge of the english language into their heads -.-'

Anthropomorphism, in simplest terms, is giving non human creatures or objects, human characteristics. (not humans with animal characteristics. ) thus, by definition, 'anthro' is the primary term. not -furry-.

I get really anal retentive when it comes to telling people off when they comment on my art as "nice furry"

Anyways. when i am less tired, i will read the rest and comment. just needed to get this little part out XD


@sevrin
Even simple things such as talking quadrupeds, animals given human emotions or expressions, is considered anthropomorphism. I have seen people with just plain animal characters but they are put into human related scenerios or are given expressions that animals do not have. That is still anthro. As basic and simplistic as it may be, it still is.

Anthro does not mean biped or entirely human. it just means something given human characteristics. I have yet to see someone who is portrayed as just an animal. An animal with no human thoughts, expressions, feelings, etc. Even when a person roleplays as an animal, thoughts and human actions are given to said animal. That is still anthro.

The word furry is versatile, yes, but the reason why "furry" is such a negative word to outsiders is because of this!
Not saying your oppinion isnt valid. Just stating the fact that saying the wrod furry in public is like asking for people to give you the highschool bully treatment. And the reason that is is because of people using it in ways it shouldnt be used. Ways that arent not correct when it comes to actual definitions of words that -should- be used instead of "furry" which already has such negativity associated with it in our society.

There are reasons why outsiders dont know what furry is or are misinformed. it is because furry is attributed to things in and out of the fandom that are questionable and shouldnt actually be using that word to describe. They have proper terms and phrases that would explain them better then "furry". Such an open ended word allows for too much outside interpretation and is part of the reason why we have such a bad name.

[Pat The Fox]

@Sevrin

Fanbases are a community, a group of like minded people. While people who are Furry do have a different range of reasons why, the common factor between them all is that they have a deep appreciation for anthros in my opinion. All the things you mentioned a Furry could be can be summed up as a form of appreciating anthropomorphic creatures. We are a close knit fanbase, but we are just that.

Furry is not a way of life. It might be encorporated in to a lifestyle, but it is not one itself. Appreciating anthros doesn't affect the way you live in any profound way, and all people who enjoy anthros do not live in a certain manner so it cannot be any defined style of living.

I'd personally be curious to know of any example of someone identifying as a Furry who does not like anthros in any form.

The broad usage of the word is a detraction in my opinion because, as I mentioned, it causes it to be ambiguous in what a person means. If you tack on a whole bunch of unlike definitions for a single word, then people are going to seek better words to describe it, which leads to the word being a little useless.

Also, associations that should not be made can be made because of the loose rules of the word as Temrin also noted. I think a lot of negative connotation with the word furry could be dropped if we adhered to a more strict usage. The individual acts are no longer "Furry" but rather personal acts of appreciation. Right now, when someone sees art of anthros that is offensive they most likely will say "OH, that's some deranged furry art" because the term is abused thus. This allows people to associate "Furry" with things that are a particular individual's form of appreciation rather than the broader interest of the community. Now, take another example, if we see some deranged Star Trek art made by Trekkie, it's called deranged Star Trek fanart. It isn't Trekkie art even if it was made by a Trekkie. The association with the group of fans just doesn't happen in the same way had it been referred to as Trekkie art.

[Drake Wingfire]

Well this is a new take on it, I honestly came in thinking it was going to be something along the lines of "gaah furry is such a bland blanket term, what about those with scales or feathers? we don't call it the scaly fandom or the feather fandom!"  ;D

But here is the thing about the furry label, its intentionally broad and vague so it can encompass everything the fandom is. Otherwise would be over segregating like some of the knobs out there going "well im an avian, im not furry" or "Im a dragon, I am not even related to these people *snooty snoot*" I have to strongly agree with Servin on this matter though. Fandom is a rather bland and dumbed down term, I know I use it all the time, but only because its a easily understood word in which to describe things. I consider us more of a community because we do a lot of things that general fandoms don't do that often, we are far more physical and open, WE are the creators, we are not here simply buying someones product, we revolve around creating our own identity's rather than just leeching vague association with something like a TV, novel or video game character. My last and most favorite one would be the types of people this community encompasses. We got far more than just the typical fan types, we have those who enjoy furry so much that their daily life always has something furry going on, art, socializing, furry hangouts, second life, role play. We even have those who are anywhere from slightly spiritual to deeply spiritual with their identity who believe themselves to be their defined creature on the inside.

The only real thing I could agree on with the term furry being mutilated is when someone says words like fursicution, furvert, fureinds, popufur or any other word where "fur" is just crammed into it. Or when someone just claims anything animal wise to be furry because its got animals. BUT when someone comes along and tries to "re-invent" furry, it never goes over too well cause it always falls into the one category of just trying to split hairs, if your goal is trying to prove one isn't furry while doing things that encompass what furry is, then I would suggest that who ever these people are should maybe just not call themselves furry and hide in the closet again till they are not so ashamed of who they relate with? The last notion of the fandom maturing I find actually a bit silly, this community sure seems to be doing just fine with the current terminology, I don't see how having some conservative description is gonna be the deal breaker in this situation. People are always gonna think what they want of us all, and the more we go on about it and go "no no no im not Furry, im furry furry" just gives people more reason to pick at us because now they see we are ashamed and embarrassed about who we are, if this is the case than people should just do what they have been doing since the fandom first came to be, just leaving it. People do grow out of the fandom, it happens, but trying to change the fandom to look like some professional group of people isn't really the logical answer as that's not what furry is about, furry is about fun, not reputation and ego. A lot of furs have already figured this out, its called not giving a shit what the uptight mundane population thinks.

[Pat The Fox]

But Drake, taking on the definition of furry as an anthropomorphic creature in no way segragates any other other types of anthros. Heck, you can be an anthro chair and you'd be accepted under the definition I proposed. An anthropomorphic creature is any non-human creature that has been given human traits.

Also, I think it is a bit pretentious to claim we are tighter knit than other fandoms, or to downplay the creativity, or even the involvement level of any of the other fanbases out there.

All fanbases hold a tight knit community simply due to the fact that it's easier to identify and relate to people who share common interests. There are charity auctions in nearly every fan base, get togethers, socials, and events that bring individual members together. Some fanbases even have scholarships, mentoring and many do community outreach work as well. A good example would be the local Steampunk fans. They share materials between each other, get together to discuss ideas and help build their costumes, and go out in to the world to do caroling and just having fun with each other and share something with the world.

Also, while our characters may seem unique mixtures of beings, they are just that, unique mixtures of beings that already exist. We pull influences just like any other person in any other fandom from both the real world and fantasy. There are countless people who are influenced by video games and cartoons in the creation of their identity. I would argue creating a a hybrid of three beings is no different than creating a character named Jantha Boon, the dark raider of the fourteeth planet who has a hankering for peanuts and Zoozoo juice from Darthmoore bars.

We certainly also consume just as much as the next fanbase, maybe even more since to somtimes to realize our characters we need another to draw it. We purchase art, both comissioned and prints, we purchase items with logos and slogans, we buy comics and stories, and purchase other trinkets and baubles related to the fanbase.

For your last point, there are people in those other fanbases also just as involved as all of us. There are those who have their entire income based on fashioning armor for various genres, those who have klingon weddings, or identify on the census their religion is Jedi.

[Sevrin]

If you look at an anthro as being something that has anything at all that could in any way be construed as an anthropomorphic quality, then yeah you're right that everything furry is anthropomorphic, but I was talking more about some people prefurring things that are basically just humans, to things like art or characters that are entirely animals, at least physically.

I still believe that being furry is more broad than just a typical fandom, and that telling people it's a fandom is misleading as to what it really is. I don't see us as being the same as trekkies, because they are star trek fans, where we aren't really anything fans, certainly many furries are fans of certain things, but being furry in general isn't really the same as being a fan of something, perhaps it could be like we are a generalized fandom that spans across several fandoms, but I still think that would be inaccurate, I think it's more like if you took a fandom and crossed it with a religion, but that's still a really bad example, this is why nobody really knows what to call it. A cat's eyes can be yellow, lemons can also be yellow, this does not make a cat's eyes lemons, cat eyes certainly have some similarities to a lemon but that does not mean they are in fact lemons, that's sort of how I see calling "furry" a fandom or fanbase.

[Pat The Fox]

How is it misleading to call the appreciation of anthros a fandom? How are we any different than any other fans? We draw appreciative art, we roleplay as the thing we enjoy or build things to represent it. We go to meetings and gatherings to talk about the thing we appreciate. We do fan like things. Take a walk in any other fan base and you will see the exact same things that happen in this fan base.

If you're going to claim otherwise, you're going to need to provide evidence that we are more than a fandom. Saying Furry is more just because it feels more could just be the result of a natural psychological tendency. We, as humans, tend to elevate the in-group we area part of to make it seem more just than any out-group. You find this in all fan bases, where people say "It's more than just a fandom, it feels like my place, like I belong."

[Drake Wingfire]

If you're going to claim otherwise, you're going to need to provide evidence that we are more than a fandom. Saying Furry is more just because it feels more could just be the result of a natural psychological tendency. We, as humans, tend to elevate the in-group we area part of to make it seem more just than any out-group. You find this in all fan bases, where people say "It's more than just a fandom, it feels like my place, like I belong."

The problem with this notion is that in the way its presented that means not a single group out there is nothing more than a bunch of like minded people just "nerding" together, fandoms, clubs, religions, pretty much any group of people doing something they enjoy or feel something about has been reduced to the lowest common denominator which in this case is described as a general fandom. Sure there is a degree of truth to it, but only in the cold hard scientific sense which has removed a lot of elements of what it means to be a part of something in favor of just comparing very bland base similarities.

[Sevrin]

It's hard to argue my point when there isn't a word for what I think of the furry fandom, but I firmly believe it's more than just a fandom.
There are people who like anthropomorphic animals but are not furries, there are also many kinds of furries with many different ideas of what furry is, probably because furry isn't just one thing it's many things and many people with similar interests grouped up into one word. Furry is just furry, it's not a fandom, it's for lack of a better word "furry"

[Temrin]

I think the main point that was trying to be said was the fact that using the word furry in other contexts, for things that are anthro or an interest of the fandom, wrong. Not referring to the fandom/community itself. "furry" is a more appropriate word and something used to describe people in the fandom, but it should not go farther then that imo. Furry should not be used to refer to anthro creatures or things that are of interest to the fandom. As you mentioned above, "There are people who like anthro's and arent furries" there for the word furry shouldnt be used to describe an anthro. It shouldnt be crammed into a plethora of other words and used in that way. (Furdom, furiend, furever, etc) unless you are in a discreet private setting. and even then it grinds my gears.

as said in Pats post

For purposes of making my argument I offer the following as what I think is a pretty all encompassing definition of Furry: "Furry is term for a person or group of people who have a deep appreciation of anthropomorphic creatures".

And this definition -is- the wide spread definition used for the fandom and IS how this community began years ago with the first people who decided to come together with their interests. So. That is all relevant. -because- the fandom is so widespread, the one, true definition is as stated above honestly. Its no different then the anime fandom is people who like anime. And it also includes your "not all people who likes anthro's are furries". Not all people who like anime consider themselves part of the anime fandom. I dont. I used to be, but i dont consider myself apart of that world anymore. Just like how people i know personally like fantasy (including anthro creatures) but do not consider themselves part of the fandom. Its the choice of the person weather or not they take part, and using the term "furry" for everything is only stuffing it in peoples faces when they dont want to be a part of it. Thats a problem and shouldnt be happening. Its another reason why people are so uncomfortable with us is because people throw around words incorrectly and in my opinion, makes us look like illiterate nerds with no respect for the outside world when we shove it in peoples faces without giving them a choice.

The definition of furry is and always will be a group of people who have an appreciation for anthropomorphic creatures. If a person doesnt want to be a part of it, thats their choice. People can have an appreciation for something and not be apart of the fandom. There is no "you are furry by association" BS. The problem with using the word furry is when its used beyond the context of it referring to people involved in the fandom. Furry has the ability to be an all encompassing word, but i really dont think it should be used as such. its confusing and as i said, it shoves it in peoples faces and only makes us look bad in the publics eye. The word should be used what it was meant for, describing people int he fandom, not for things that are interests to the fandom. (calling sonic a furry, and star fox a furry, makes it sounds like you are saying they have sentience and are part of the fandom -as a person- when its a character. an imagined creation and is its -own- thing. not a -furry-. )

[Silvermink]

If furry as a fanbase wants to mature

Define "mature"? I'm not sure what you think the fandom is being held back from, I guess. It's a pretty well-established fandom that's been around for 30+ years.

The question of whether I agree with you or not aside, I think changing the majority opinions of a large and diverse group of people who've been using the word in a number of different senses for that long would be difficult at best. "Herding cats" doesn't begin to describe it.

[Temrin]

I do agree silvermink, that stopping people from using it in diverse ways is pretty pointless. It wont work.


Eh, i will still express it when people do it though. I've saved a lot of butts from troll fires and arguments due to warning them about using it in confusing ways. (Ahah, some people will pretty much yell and scream at people for calling them or their characters furry when they arent associated with the fandom. )

[tokar]

mickey mouse, donald duck, daisy mae, goofy, pluto et al are all furries.  oops .... anthropomorphic caricatures.   but for those that cannot say those $20 words such as anthropooo, oops. antsathro  oops, damm it.  i know it is anthropic oh crap.  DAMM IT -- THEY ARE FURRIES!!!!!!

[Temrin]

@tokar i definitely do not expect people to say anthropomorphic or anthropomorphism every time. Its why the short form "anthro" exists. just as easy to say as furries.