Say "No" To the HST

[Silvermink]

The NDP were a financial nightmare and Carol James just doesn't seem to have the jam needed to slay Gordo the merciless.

The NDP has exactly one guy with any jam whatsoever, and that's Adrian Dix.

[velvetkytten]

i have been wondering about all this hst thing more and more because of all the negative info. does anyone know if there are ANY good points ? I want to know both sides before I decide to hate it or love it. I've had trouble finding the actual hst proposal... I want to read that before I get too upset. I find that a lot of the time most people don't even know ALL the facts.

Thanks to Carthage I have learned a lot about politics that i never knew.

from the web sites I have read I have confused myself more so though. I have a hard time learning some concepts. one site says hst will NOT be on gas, oils, and a bunch of medical stuff.. I've also read that low income families will be getting 230 bucks a year for the hst thing. I of course want to know what is what since I am on disability and live below the poverty line.

so if anyone knows fact to fact what the hst is for instead of "what everyone says". I don't mean to offend ANYONE so .. if I just did... I'm sorry.. I am simply aware that I just dont understand a lot about it.

and I unfortunately need to explained to me like a child.

[Charmy]

Hey velvet,

I can't say I know too much about this stuff myself, but I did find one place which seemed to present at least some of the supposed pros/cons of the HST:
http://209.200.253.26/special/parrysound/forum/index.php?topic=954.0

Hopefully you'll find that a little bit informative as a starting point. I definitely agree with you that before you decide to lobby against something you really need to hear both sides of the story.

I mean there IS a reason that some people want this to happen, and its not going to be as neat and tidy as "They're the rich people." or "They're the bad guys".

[Kithop]

So if I'm reading that right, their reasoning is that within the next decade, it will save businesses a bunch of money, that they can then turn around and use to create jobs.

Of course, nothing says that a) those jobs are going to be on Canadian soil in the first place and not just outsourced/offshored overseas, or b) that the companies will take that entire chunk of savings and spend it on job creation in the first place - surely their shareholders will want a cut, they might buy some of their own stock back, re-invest it elsewhere in the market, sink it into material costs to replace aging internal infrastructure, etc. (and in the case of the infrastructure one, that usually means streamlining.  And streamlining with better, faster, newer equipment can just as easily mean job cuts as less staff are required to maintain their systems...)

In the meantime, while we hope these magic jobs materialize, everyone who's already struggling to make ends meet and feed their families, etc., get hit with a tax hike on necessary goods and services.  While I applaud attempts to stimulate job growth and fix the economy, screwing over the poor is not the way to do it.  By itself, the HST push may seem innocuous, but when combined with all the other things Gordon Campbell has done during his past few terms that blatantly show complete disregard and even contempt for our poor and homeless, all I can say is 'I'm not surprised.'

[Masozi]

I just thought I'd throw some more food on the table for thought, the provincial govt. is becoming quite adept at instituting stealth taxes. The HST is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg when it comes to the post Olympic pain we are all going to feel now that the bills are going to start coming in.  This, the draconian cuts, the mean spirited nature of the govt. and the BC Rail scandal will in all likelihood be the end of the premier's political career, and not a second too soon!

This is quoted from "The Examiner"  concerning the soon to come dramatic rise in the cost of living/inflation.

" If you're among the fortunate ones to have to weathered the recession, kept your job, and dutifully paid your taxes on time, there's no respite or reward for you in 2010. Gordon Campbell's British Columbia is piling on the stealth taxes, and while you might not notice most of them, the effect on your pocketbook could be quite sizable.

1.)  There's the fee increase of the Medical Services Plan from $53 per individual to $56, from $96 for a family of two to $102, and from $108 to $114 for a family of three or more. There is no opt-out plan for MSP in British Columbia, which means that for a family of two or more, your taxes just went up $72 for the year.

2.) There's BC Hydro's proposed rate increases of 33% over the next four years. B.C. Hydro applied for a 9.1% rate increase to the B.C. Utilities Commission to begin on April 1. If approved, it could cost up to $84 extra per year for electricity for the average use home.

3.) More bad news if you live on the island and need to commute to the mainland. BC Ferries raised their rates again, beginning April 1 by $1.75 more between the Lower mainland and Vancouver, and by $3.30 more on the round trip from Horseshoe Bay to the Sunshine Coast.

4.) While Terasen Gas is a private corporation, you won't find any relief on your utilities bill. Terasen today announced a rate increase of 6% which it will seek approval from the B.C. Utilities Commission. That would push the average natural gas user's annual bill to increase between $49 and $62.

5.)  If all that wasn't bad enough, the much hated carbon tax is set to rise once again on July 1, from the 3.33 cent tax per litre currently, to 4.45 cents per litre. But that tax won't just hit you at the pump. You'll pay more if you buy Kerosene, Methanol, Propane, Butane, Ethanol, or any other hydrocarbon, including that natural gas bill that just went up.

6.) The final nail in your fiscal coffin could be the dreaded HST coming in July as well, which will add a 7% tax on a score of products and services previously exempt. The increased price of items is expected to drive inflation, even as it will curb consumer appetite, partially reversing the economic recovery.

For people living in Vancouver, adding these stealth taxes won't do much to change Vancouver's number one spot for least affordable metropolitan market in the English world. " 

Let us not forget that as of April 1st Transklunk is raising fares for transit monthly passes and FareSaver ticket prices, Cash fare prices are supposed to remain the same.

[Digipig]

When I buy a house in the future it won't be in this province!

[Carthage]

Wow... heated discussion...

How many of you have actually researched other places that have implemented HST, or equivalent global taxation on goods and services, and the subsequent effect it has had on their economies?

New Brunswick (my home province) implemented HST in 1996 http://www.gnb.ca/0162/tax/hst-e.asp Newfoundland and Nova Scotia also have HST.
These are much poorer provinces than BC and they bitched less about it.

The European Union has the VAT (Value Added Tax) http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/index_en.htm
The EU has an amazing standard of living, and despite the global economic situation still has one of the top 5 valued currencies worldwide.

Granted we cannot be guarenteed that all the tax revenues from the HST will all go towards improving our lives, but a lot of stuff gets bought here. That a lot of money to be spread around.

Just some food for thought.

[Kithop]

Probably because we've just been nailed with a huge blow to our economy in the falloff from the Olympics, many of us, including myself, have been laid off and are having trouble finding work, and this HST equates to a big tax hike on food so Mr. Campbell can further spend it on his big business buddies.

If we had someone in power who actually gave two shits about the homeless situation and was planning on spending the increased tax revenue on fixing it, I might be able to hold my tongue - there's people worse off than me, so raising my taxes to help them out is fair.  Raising it while 'companies' (that should have stayed 100% crown corp) like Translink can continue to post record profits and give out bonuses while hiking fares at the same time to further nail people who can't afford to drive and continuing to completely ignore or dismiss the issues in the downtown east side is unfair and demeaning.

I think the clarification needs to be made - we're not protesting taxes, we're protesting unfair taxes.

[Acco]

Yanno, something needs to be done about the debt. All that can be said on the matter is the taxes will come one way or another.

[Fargo]

When I buy a house in the future it won't be in this province!

"Long Gone To Saskatchewan" By Corb Lund and the Hurtin Albertans comes to mind....

[Masozi]

After much debate and angst the day has arrived when BC residents will have to open their wallets, money belts etc. and bend over.  The HST, ( and the Gas Tax increase ) has just made life a bit more interesting and expensive, ( remember that the Gas tax has just gone up 2.4 cents per liter, ( or almost 10 cents per Imperial gallon. )  as of this morning.  The anti HST people delivered the 700,000 plus name petition to Elections BC this afternoon amid much media fanfare.  The government simply raised an eyebrow and all its members and supporters simply said that they were going ahead with the tax no matter what.  We have heard plenty of arguments on both sides of the issue as to what is going to happen from here on.  The time for talk is over, now we are going to start seeing what is really going to happen.  How many working poor and those on low fixed incomes might this push over the edge to ruin?  Will the restaurant and food service industry take a big hit ?  Is this the last straw?, the thing that has damaged the current BC Govt. beyond the point of no return?  How much will inflation go up as a result of these tax increases?  Can transit fare increases be far behind? This and many other questions shall be answered in the coming days/weeks/months.

On the 18:00 hr evening news cast, (June 30th) the reporter covering the HST story said the simple formula to remember is what will be taxed by the HST is anything that is currently taxed by the GST.

[Tak]

http://hst.blog.gov.bc.ca/

I figured that I would post this link.

There is a lot of misinformation floating around in the media. When you get right down to it, there are so many benefits of the HST.

For those who don't feel they want to take the time to read, the hst includes:

- $230 credit for individuals making income of up to $20000 and families up to $25000
- 7% rebate on gasoline (essentially like paying only gst)
- 7% rebate on childrens items (ie clothes, car seats, diapers etc.)
- 7% rebate on heat and electrical
- rebate up to $26 250 on new house
- items that were previously gst exempt remain hst exempt
- manufacturing is taxed at the end of the manufacturing process instead of compounded, which will cut costs to buisnesses
- can claim the 12% HST you pay as an input tax credit, rather than previously only 5%

another fun fact is we are completely tax exempt in Washington state. Just proof of residences and you pay 0 tax.

yes on some items you will be paying an additional 7% that you wouldn't have paid before, but the rebates, credits, and eventual reduction of cost of manufactured items, make up for it. Most people will be able to continue their lives unaltered and will likely even benefit.

My $0.02

[Lune]

After much debate and angst the day has arrived when BC residents will have to open their wallets, money belts etc. and bend over.  The HST, ( and the Gas Tax increase ) has just made life a bit more interesting and expensive, ( remember that the Gas tax has just gone up 2.4 cents per liter, ( or almost 10 cents per Imperial gallon. )  as of this morning.  The anti HST people delivered the 700,000 plus name petition to Elections BC this afternoon amid much media fanfare.  The government simply raised an eyebrow and all its members and supporters simply said that they were going ahead with the tax no matter what.  We have heard plenty of arguments on both sides of the issue as to what is going to happen from here on.  The time for talk is over, now we are going to start seeing what is really going to happen.  How many working poor and those on low fixed incomes might this push over the edge to ruin?  Will the restaurant and food service industry take a big hit ?  Is this the last straw?, the thing that has damaged the current BC Govt. beyond the point of no return?  How much will inflation go up as a result of these tax increases?  Can transit fare increases be far behind? This and many other questions shall be answered in the coming days/weeks/months.

On the 18:00 hr evening news cast, (June 30th) the reporter covering the HST story said the simple formula to remember is what will be taxed by the HST is anything that is currently taxed by the GST.

I'm going to make a controversial statement.  I approve of HST, the fact of the matter is there would be tax increases regardless as there should be and as a thrifty individual, the HST is a boon versus a increase in income taxes.

The HST will not break any families on the edge, people will get by it sounds cold but it is the truth.  The HST came to Nova Scotia over ten years ago,  15% on everything, and a bunch of other taxation programs ($150 auto registration every 2 years expensive much).  NS, had higher unemployment and was considered the low wage ghetto of the nation but people got by.  This extra money in the government coffers led to some much needed improvement in the province, would we have seen programs like the province wide composting program, Halifax Harbor clean up project, or the massive investments in renewable energy such as wind farms and tidal power I find it unlikely.

Quite frankly since moving here I have been more than satisfied with the government (aside from the road network  >:(), a low tax rate, minimal amount of fees and fairly efficiently run.  

[Kithop]

There's one big, obvious reason why the government here is hiking taxes with the HST:

The Olympics.

As in, we need to pay all that stuff off, and as you know, the 'BC Liberals' (that are completely disconnected from the Federal ones) are just another name for the old Social Credit party that absolutely adores being in the pocket of big businesses and will do anything for their continued support and approval.

Like shift a huge chunk of the tax burden from them to common citizens that are already feeling pinched.  If we can't afford to buy their products, how are businesses supposed to recover?  Trickle-down economics just doesn't work, and I'm very skeptical that all those talking point benefits and bonuses actually add up, considering they've admitted they're shifting $1.9 billion of the tax load from businesses to citizens.  That's $1.9 billion out of our pockets that multinational corporations with offices here no longer have to pay (but will likely kick a chunk of back to Campbell's cronies as a 'thank you' and incentive to continue the process), and fat-cat CEOs will likely distribute amongst their top executives as a bonus for a job well done.  Will prices for their products go down in response?  Will their employees get a raise from all that extra saved cash?

As if.

[Sowaka]

It might also be to remove PST, a cascading tax system, which, like Tak said, charges tax on every step of the supply chain. According to wikipedia the cascading tax system has been abandoned by most economies in favor of a "value added tax" like GST. In the end... I think HST is meant to simplify and modernize everything, most economists support it and studies show that it will be revenue neutral. You're being charged more on certain things, but charged less on others. And honestly, unless you order take-out food every day... you probably don't have to worry too much about the 7% raise in taxes. And if the price hike makes THAT much of a difference to your budget... you should probably reconsider going to take-out joints and restaurants so often. With any luck the money the businesses save with the replacement of the cascading tax system will eventually trickle down into savings on the food you order at those places anyways.

And I REALLY doubt that HST is being introduced because of the Olympics. It's made to be revenue neutral, and we're not the first and only province to get HST.

"The tax attempts to build a more efficient tax system while not increasing sales tax revenues."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonized_Sales_Tax#cite_note-cdhowe-1