Do Vancouver men suck? - Katherine Ashenburg

Renwaldo · January 11, 2012, 02:02:14 PM

I want you to read this, and share your opinion with the forum please:
http://www.vanmag.com/News_and_Features/Do_Vancouver_Men_Suck?page=0%2C0

I've been thinking a great deal about the culture of my city, my culture, the area I was raised in. Lately Vancouver has been perceived by foreign visitors from everywhere by being 'dull' in every cultural aspect. Our architecture is contemporary and monochromatic, local street fashion only safe, there is little nightlife, policies surrounding the consumption and selling of liqueur is smothering, local artists discouraged.

The author of this little article is an ambitious heterosexual female, she may seem a bit harsh at times in her bias, but overall she makes a wonderful point. I realize most of us here are homosexual males, however I'm hoping us boys are able to see past are own bias here. Have we not noticed the same thing among ourselves? Even among homosexual men? What do you think is to blame for this? Feminism? The abolishment of the social classes? An unaffordable cost of living?
Whatever the cause may be, I'm inclined to agree with the author. Mainly because I myself am one such guilty male. Of course I can't speak for the rest of the male population, just myself.
Honestly I can see how ambition is hard to come by around here. I've never thought of Vancouverites as very proud people, 'content' is a good word. Our culture is one where boasting is discouraged and considered obnoxious, where above all else a healthy and balanced environment is valued. People around here don't typically get drunk or party hard, they toke up and do yoga, says another author from Toronto. There is little to inspire anyone to get dressed up and paint the town red in this city. Consumption is scorned upon around here, it's the latest trend.

It's all encompassing. Vancouver seems to have invented a new kind puritanism, one where we worship cultural expression by repressing it, all in the name of a healthy body and state of mind!

Here's the article on Vancouver street fashion I posted a while ago, it's from 2009 but still very applicable:
http://www.bcbusinessonline.ca/bcb/sponsored/style-guide/wear-else/2009/09/02/what-vancouver-people-wear

Lastly here is semi-famous documentary surrounding the - lack thereof - local music scene:
http://www.nofuncity.org/about.php

Your thoughts?

(sorry if this a bit too much for one thread. I realize after writing this I haven't really made much of a point. >_<; I'm not interested in what you guys think of my own opinions so much as what 'your' opinions on the subject(s) are.)

edit: I just found another article from the other gender perspective, so no one needs to feel like their sex is being attacked. :P
http://www.vanmag.com/News_and_Features/Do_Vancouver_Women_Suck_A_Readers_Response
The comments are insightful as well, read them.

Selkit · January 11, 2012, 02:15:38 PM

I wear a stainless steel armored greatcoat. Bollocks to at least one part of that notion for one of us!

Renwaldo · January 11, 2012, 02:18:11 PM

Quote from: Selkit on January 11, 2012, 02:15:38 PM
I wear a stainless steel armored greatcoat. Bollocks to at least one part of that notion for one of us!

Yeah, but do you pick up many girls (or boys) in said coat? :monocle:

Selkit · January 11, 2012, 02:20:38 PM

Quote from: Renwaldo on January 11, 2012, 02:18:11 PM
Yeah, but do you pick up many girls (or boys) in said coat? :monocle:

The question is more, do I give a damn about picking up anyone at all, irrespective of gender? I have next to no libido. Creative drive, on the other hand...

Fazar · January 11, 2012, 02:44:27 PM

Definately comming back to this later. But my initial gut feeling of a response would go along the lines of.

"You don't know Fun, This is responsible!"

Uno · January 11, 2012, 04:28:43 PM

Hmm.... I don't know. I find it hard to believe that it could be narrowed down to a single city of uninteresting/uniterested lazy men. I would like to think it is a global issue and not restricted to a city I have come to love. I try not to be one of those guys. I open doors for people, if I see someone needing help I usually try and help them. I don't like going out looking frumpy! My hair is always done and I am always clean shaven. I try and dress at least somewhat decent, and if I am going to dinner I do try and dress nicer. It drives me nuts seeing men walking around in sweats. Sweats stay at home or the gym. The same should go for chicks. I don't think you look cute in your hidious pink Juicy pajama pants.

BUT that's just me. Maybe it is a little different because I'm gay, though I doubt it because I see just as many sloppy, lazy gay guys.

I think technology is to blame too. On a date or just out with friends I am finding it more and more common to sit there in silence for a good amount of time while people check their twitter or w/e. I might check my email briefly or something, but I would never sit there and make someone wait while I chat on Yahoo or something for 15 minutes. Look around these days and it's so easy to see how disconnected people are.

This is turning into a rant :P ANYWAY, I don't necessarily agree it's worse here. I think in general people are just getting lazy and are too busy buried in their Iphones and video games to be bothered. I'll do my part to keep chivalry alive, but sorry ladies.... Unless you're a guy, it's only out of kindness :gay:

Drake Wingfire · January 11, 2012, 07:29:47 PM

(For the sake of having a thoughtful counter argument I am gonna read this article)

If this article was by a man and on women It would be called sexist and misogynistic if it was worded nearly exactly like this. (double standards people :) )

I am gonna let these women in on a little nugget.. a gem of information.. I am going to impart some of my "faggy" wisdom here.... You know the best part about dating? You can date who ever you want, if you don't like a guy cause he is a gamer who you see as some slob, you can go out and get a jock, if you don't like the jock you can go out and get a good looking pretty boy who is probably gay. the possibilities are "like totally endless" You don't have to sit there and aggressiveness try and change a man into what you want him to be. The point of relationships and love is finding someone you connect with, you gotta start off with common ground, you cant just grab some guy and try and force him to be someone he is not, and calling him lazy, slob, boring etc because he doesn't fit your definition only shows how shallow you truly are inside and frankly its women like this who give most women a bad rep.

I think people like this need to just get off their high horse and stop living in a fantasy world then moan and whine when they don't get the exact "ken doll" they want. Part of the reason that pushed me onto the path of being gay were girls and women like this. all my life I knew that something was wrong with this double standard society and the "plastic" image that girls were encouraged to become, if the only way you can get your "dream guy" is by being fake then don't be surprised that he bails when he sees whats below the surface.

But I am honestly slanted on this issue, the ONLY females I ever liked before I was gay were the real ones who just had fun and did what they wanted in high-school, they didn't try and be those plastic types. I liked them because you got to know who they truly were, not the mask they wore out every day. The ones I knew would get in on bad humor, you could talk to them about movies or cool places to go, hell they would tell me about shit they did like playing paintball. Im not saying they were "butch" far from it, they were still very feminine, they just didn't try and be like the hollywood chicks, they did what they liked and enjoyed what they liked, even if it was something that was usually "a guys thing" and I had a ton of respect for them for being that honest. It takes real confidence in who you are to just go out and have fun without trying to force yourself into specific roll or put on a mask to try and be something you are not.

Nhyra · January 11, 2012, 09:02:05 PM

To me, the women quoted and paraphrased in the article sound as though they are coming from a place of privilege, and in my opinion, sound bitter with dating in general and are just being overly judgmental of the men in this city. They are probably basing their opinions on men in Vancouver on their own personal experiences in the past, ie. they weren't satisfied in their past relationships, so they think 'I know! It's men in Vancouver! They must be the issue! Not me/that one person I was with/the fact that I partner with people who just aren't right for me and feel let down'.

Drake made some good points regarding expectations. I think that people in general, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, should be examining their own expectations a bit when it comes to relationships before making blanket statements on the quality/type of person to be found in the city. If you have certain expectations, that is fine. Just communicate that and don't date someone who doesn't meet those expectations, otherwise you will be disappointed. And don't try to change someone else, that isn't fair.

Speaking as a hetero female, finding a high quality mate in Vancouver wasn't an issue for me. I managed just fine.

Personally, I rather like Vancouver. I think there is lots going on here. I came from a small rural community of roughly 10,000 people in the interior of British Columbia, so it somewhat baffles me when people tell me that there isn't anything happening here. Where I come from, even the 7-11 wasn't open 24 hours!

Hm. Perhaps that is affecting my expectations, though... ;3

Choco · January 12, 2012, 01:44:58 AM

I don't think it fair to judge an entire area based on afew people that a person has had an experience with whether it be good or bad. It really depends on the person I know myself I am abit of the quiet type when I'm around People I don't really know but I am rather socialable once I know the person abit better

I think in alot of ways women can be just as bad and basing the area's gender I think is wrong no matter where you go in this world you will always have your good apples and bad ones

FurryJackman · January 16, 2012, 12:02:01 AM

BCIT Magazine, our in-house news show, did a story on this claim:

http://commons.bcit.ca/broadcastnews/2012/01/11/bcit-magazine-vancouver-men-suck/

(Seek past the color bars, they forgot to cut that out)

Renwaldo · January 16, 2012, 12:56:10 AM

What an enlightening story. I think it brings to mind another question: Are Vancouver women bitches? :)

Your thoughts?

Zen · January 16, 2012, 01:14:25 AM

Quote from: Renwaldo on January 16, 2012, 12:56:10 AM
What an enlightening story. I think it brings to mind another question: Are Vancouver women bitches? :)

Your thoughts?

Both genders are just as bad, but both genders have bad apples that ruin the bunch far too easily. Frankly, those articles are stupid "we ran out of real material" things I'd expect from 24 Hours. Also, unless I missed it, the original article were slanted without any regard to the LGBT+ community and any sort of issues related to anything other than straight dating, which is also horribly unbalanced given the pro-LGBT+ community in Vancouver.

On another point, while "Do Vancouver Men Suck" is the in-your-face article title ... your counter-question is unnecessarily crass. In the context of this thread, it is an equally valid question, but not when posed with unnecessarily biased language.

Renwaldo · January 16, 2012, 01:17:38 AM

Stories need to get read, and they must be sold. That doesn't happen unless the vernacular is entertaining. :birdy:

Looking past the blatant sexism, what do you think about the initial article?

Drake Wingfire · January 16, 2012, 01:32:21 AM

Quote from: Zen on January 16, 2012, 01:14:25 AM
Both genders are just as bad, but both genders have bad apples that ruin the bunch far too easily. Frankly, those articles are stupid "we ran out of real material" things I'd expect from 24 Hours. Also, unless I missed it, the original article were slanted without any regard to the LGBT+ community and any sort of issues related to anything other than straight dating, which is also horribly unbalanced given the pro-LGBT+ community in Vancouver.

On another point, while "Do Vancouver Men Suck" is the in-your-face article title ... your counter-question is unnecessarily crass. In the context of this thread, it is an equally valid question, but not when posed with unnecessarily biased language.

Very well spoken if I do say so myself, I gotta agree.

Ren: Yes, stories must be sold to get read, too bad we are pandering to the lowest common denominator in every case like this. It kinda falls in the same ilk as "is Obama secretly a Muslim?! more inside!" you just gotta cringe cause you know the very people its catering to.. In this articles case its really just to preach to a already slanted choir of un-datable people who want something to blame for their single status and they blow it up into a pseudo pandemic. IE "I can't find a guy I like so there for all men here must suck" :roll:

Haemish · January 16, 2012, 10:03:45 PM

Quote from: Renwaldo on January 16, 2012, 12:56:10 AM
What an enlightening story. I think it brings to mind another question: Are Vancouver women bitches? :)

Your thoughts?

No.

As to the rest of it, I find the article exaggerated and inaccurate. It dose a disservice to women as well, "This evening, they're participating in another favourite local pastime—dissing Vancouver men." I mean, come on. Women have better things to do than moan about men as a pass time (at least that's case for me & my friends) and I wouldn't hang around with anyone so negative. Which brings me to my next point, bullshit. I've known more than a few "reporters", that line straight up sounds like an opinion rather than a fact or quote, I bet both the women interviewed where chaffed by it. It's what journalists do, paste in sensational lines to make their story more interesting/biased.

This whole article is big ol' case of Deal With It. Can't find a good man/woman? Look harder and put yourself out there. It's rare that quality people are going to just fall in your lap. Work on self improvement, and being the kind of person someone wants to date. It isn't rocket science.

I don't think the men here are deficient any more than I think the women go around moaning about it.