Inquery, furmeets with no alcohol?

[LudroLycandrel]

Hmm... I have a bit of a compromise in mind

What about having an "Alcohol limit" at a meet? The host could set a particular limit on the total alcohol brought to the location(and has a fridge handy to keep track) and everything over that can be kept in a storage bin and given out as raffles as people are ready to leave? This way it allows people who are social drinkers to socially drink and also those who overindulge will sap the rest of the liquor supply for the rest of people, and then possibly have to pay for drinking their liquor.

It may not be a perfect solution, but it's at attempt at reaching a middle ground.  I do believe the host would be entirely in his/her rights to restrict the flow of the substance as they see fit, especially to be a "bartender" to those who are known over indulgers.  Or have someone who isn't a drinker be a bartender as well.

[Selkit]

Hmm... I have a bit of a compromise in mind

What about having an "Alcohol limit" at a meet? The host could set a particular limit on the total alcohol brought to the location(and has a fridge handy to keep track) and everything over that can be kept in a storage bin and given out as raffles as people are ready to leave? This way it allows people who are social drinkers to socially drink and also those who overindulge will sap the rest of the liquor supply for the rest of people, and then possibly have to pay for drinking their liquor.

It may not be a perfect solution, but it's at attempt at reaching a middle ground.  I do believe the host would be entirely in his/her rights to restrict the flow of the substance as they see fit, especially to be a "bartender" to those who are known over indulgers.  Or have someone who isn't a drinker be a bartender as well.

That's really not a compromise, and it is not effective. Limiting quantity will do very little to curtail a quick binge. Someone going from sober to four drinks in the span of five minutes will likely banging into walls and near vomiting in fifteen to twenty more. Someone who has had eight drinks paced carefully over the evening, and mediated it with water, will be carrying on with a peaceable conversation, carrying only a mellow buzz. Quantity served has little to do with irresponsible drinking (I believe at Gizmo's meet, I went through more than half a fifth of Polish vodka, a fair amount of homemade wine, and several shots, but moderated it with nonalcoholic liquids and a very slow drinking pace; I was still walking around uninhibited at the end of the event, 8 hours later). Had I binge-drank that quantity in one go, I'd have been in serious trouble and well on my way to an alcoholic coma.

The only way to properly restrict the flow of liquor is to restrict the speed at which it is served, which basically requires that you have a sober, or responsible bartender with a good sense of self-restraint, to do drink service. The appropriate solution, is to permit individuals to bring their own booze, and have it placed under the care of a responsible tender, who will serve it to them upon request, and deny them upon their judgement, while obeying provincial service laws. This is not to say that a private event strictly requires a provincially certified tender, mind you, but they are qualified and tested for safe-service knowledge. Even if you limit how much an individual can bring to an event, if you do not limit how it is handled, that individual can simply drink their friend's drink, or otherwise simply outpace their ability to handle the alcohol in the first place. Having a certified bartender mitigates most of the risks, and there are individuals in the community with their provincial SIR (I'm numbered among them). I'm sure some of them would volunteer for the task.

[Neox]

What I've found amusing is how many people defend drinking as if its some neccesity in life. Or its some personal insult if they are asked not to drink. The attachment "disorder" I've seen is unbelivable how certain people defend the booze as if its a life saver. I have literally had people argue with me saying that drinking alcohol is no different/worse then drinking coffee.. give me a break! Do you see cops pulling people over to give you a breathalizer for cafine intake? hell no!

Do you see cops pulling people over to give you a breathalizer for cafine intake? hell no!

No, but I have seen people roll their vehicles on the way home from work because they drank so much coffee during the day that their awareness and reflexes had tanked and they fell asleep at the wheel.  Happened to a guy at my work, no joke.  Also, caffeine is a diuretic, like alcohol, and it causes your body to dehydrate and limits the nutrient-intake from the food you ate around the time you consumed it.  I can definitely argue that alcohol is no worse than drinking coffee seeing as I drink both and I know the positive and negative effects of each of them.  Do you eat cheeseburgers?  Pizza?  Drink coke?  Don't even get me started on how much WORSE those substances are for you than, say, a beer.  Or an O.J. with a shot of vodka.  Or a finger of scotch. =P

Seriously... if someone at a furmeet isn't acting like an idiot because they're drunk, they'll be acting like an idiot because they're just an idiot.  There will never be a perfect world of people with a set standard level of intelligence and social skills, it's just not happening.  Alcohol or no, I guarantee that there will be several social events you'll go to that will contain at least one (1) dickhead who is making an ass of him/herself and making others feel uncomfortable.

I will defend casual and social alcohol-consumption because it's one of the few remaining freedoms I have in a country that attempts to idiot-proof everything by banning (rather than educating people on) normally-harmless activities and substances that someone went overboard on and killed/severely injured themselves.  I'm happy to have my beer-a-day (and the occasional party-night) because I can and do enjoy it.

As I said before: if you don't like alcohol, don't drink it.  If there's a creep who is drunk out of his/her tree and is making you feel uncomfortable, ask them to knock it off and bug somebody else.  If that doesn't work, you can either get verbal on them or get someone (the host) to help you out.

[BabyCheetah]

 I can definitely argue that alcohol is no worse than drinking coffee seeing as I drink both and I know the positive and negative effects of each of them.  

Looks like someone had one too many this morning. I'm not joking either (and no, I'm not talking about one too many coffees).

[LudroLycandrel]

Hmm... I have a bit of a compromise in mind

What about having an "Alcohol limit" at a meet? The host could set a particular limit on the total alcohol brought to the location(and has a fridge handy to keep track) and everything over that can be kept in a storage bin and given out as raffles as people are ready to leave? This way it allows people who are social drinkers to socially drink and also those who overindulge will sap the rest of the liquor supply for the rest of people, and then possibly have to pay for drinking their liquor.

It may not be a perfect solution, but it's at attempt at reaching a middle ground.  I do believe the host would be entirely in his/her rights to restrict the flow of the substance as they see fit, especially to be a "bartender" to those who are known over indulgers.  Or have someone who isn't a drinker be a bartender as well.

That's really not a compromise, and it is not effective. Limiting quantity will do very little to curtail a quick binge. Someone going from sober to four drinks in the span of five minutes will likely banging into walls and near vomiting in fifteen to twenty more. Someone who has had eight drinks paced carefully over the evening, and mediated it with water, will be carrying on with a peaceable conversation, carrying only a mellow buzz. Quantity served has little to do with irresponsible drinking (I believe at Gizmo's meet, I went through more than half a fifth of Polish vodka, a fair amount of homemade wine, and several shots, but moderated it with nonalcoholic liquids and a very slow drinking pace; I was still walking around uninhibited at the end of the event, 8 hours later). Had I binge-drank that quantity in one go, I'd have been in serious trouble and well on my way to an alcoholic coma.

The only way to properly restrict the flow of liquor is to restrict the speed at which it is served, which basically requires that you have a sober, or responsible bartender with a good sense of self-restraint, to do drink service. The appropriate solution, is to permit individuals to bring their own booze, and have it placed under the care of a responsible tender, who will serve it to them upon request, and deny them upon their judgement, while obeying provincial service laws. This is not to say that a private event strictly requires a provincially certified tender, mind you, but they are qualified and tested for safe-service knowledge. Even if you limit how much an individual can bring to an event, if you do not limit how it is handled, that individual can simply drink their friend's drink, or otherwise simply outpace their ability to handle the alcohol in the first place. Having a certified bartender mitigates most of the risks, and there are individuals in the community with their provincial SIR (I'm numbered among them). I'm sure some of them would volunteer for the task.

At least we have the "responsible bartender" concept agreed upon.  And yes, I did have the SIR in mind as a better qualification, although there may be some people who have priviously completed SIR yet don't have the liscencing anymore(I was one of them as well, but that was long ago enough that I have forgotten almost all my learning)  Why don't we see if there's anyone in the community who would generally volunteer for such an event?  That would a good litmus test for how feasible this particular idea would be.

Another issue as well is the people who, even with a minute amount of consumption, cease to be civil drunks and are of larger sizes than some of the SIR furs.  I hope there hasn't been an occasion where a fur has had to be "ejected" from a meet, but I could see that happening.  Your thoughts?

[Silvermink]

 I can definitely argue that alcohol is no worse than drinking coffee seeing as I drink both and I know the positive and negative effects of each of them.  

Looks like someone had one too many this morning. I'm not joking either (and no, I'm not talking about one too many coffees).

Are you going to provide rational responses or just cast aspersions on those who do? :)

[BabyCheetah]

If you think Naetholix gave a rational and truthful response then you are way off. I loose respect to those that blantantly make faulse statements. Therefore I will no longer participate in this disgussion.

 I can definitely argue that alcohol is no worse than drinking coffee seeing as I drink both and I know the positive and negative effects of each of them.  

Looks like someone had one too many this morning. I'm not joking either (and no, I'm not talking about one too many coffees).

Are you going to provide rational responses or just cast aspersions on those who do? :)

[Selkit]

At least we have the "responsible bartender" concept agreed upon.  And yes, I did have the SIR in mind as a better qualification, although there may be some people who have priviously completed SIR yet don't have the liscencing anymore(I was one of them as well, but that was long ago enough that I have forgotten almost all my learning)  Why don't we see if there's anyone in the community who would generally volunteer for such an event?  That would a good litmus test for how feasible this particular idea would be.

Another issue as well is the people who, even with a minute amount of consumption, cease to be civil drunks and are of larger sizes than some of the SIR furs.  I hope there hasn't been an occasion where a fur has had to be "ejected" from a meet, but I could see that happening.  Your thoughts?

I believe it would be a good idea at some point in time. I have a valid and up to date SIR, personally; I would happily volunteer to serve at an event (I've been itching for an excuse to bring out my little black bar book). Regarding ejection of any problem, I cannot remember any incident in recent memory where anyone, sober or not, has gotten physical. I believe that's a non-issue; It is not the bartender's responsibility to physically eject someone from an event, and doing so could be construed as assault, for that matter. If an issue has gotten severe enough to mandate physical contact, the police should be called.

[Neox]

If you think Naetholix gave a rational and truthful response then you are way off. I loose respect to those that blantantly make faulse statements. Therefore I will no longer participate in this disgussion.

 I can definitely argue that alcohol is no worse than drinking coffee seeing as I drink both and I know the positive and negative effects of each of them.  

Looks like someone had one too many this morning. I'm not joking either (and no, I'm not talking about one too many coffees).

Are you going to provide rational responses or just cast aspersions on those who do? :)

Firstly, I'd like to ask what it was that I said which caused you to drop such an idiotic comment.  I haven't had anything so much as a beer since Saturday, so your accusation is as inaccurate as it is childish—as well as it completely strips you of any credibility in your future posts hereafter.

Being a type-1 diabetic for 8 years, I see health and medical specialists once a month to make sure my blood-sugars are in-check.  On the subject of alcohol and diabetes, my doctor and my dietitian have both made sure to lecture me upside-down and sideways about it.  That being said, I also regularly query them about different foods and substances and what their effects are on my body, and they freely educate me on things like caffeine and alcohol.  When posing an argument, it's good to at least have some knowledge in the subject that you're arguing or else you'll look like a fool.  With access to free knowledge as I have, I try my best to educate others with what I learn.  I do have a good understanding of the pros and cons of alcohol and many other controversial substances that we ingest and I believe I make a damn good objective argument with that information.

Your original question began subtly enough.  On the outside, it looks hypothetical even though you admit your own personal bias, which is okay.  Someone commented in your favor and you began adding more of your own personal bias into the subject.  Then others attempted to bring it back into an objective point-of-view and that's when you started getting all butthurt.  I think you created this thread with hopes that some people would comment in support of your anti-alcohol campaign to help you feel a sense of camaraderie and belonging.  Instead it backfired and people started arguing for the other half of the debate (Gasp! A debate with two sides!).  You took these legitimate and hypothetical responses as a personal insult and began rambling obscurities to try and further defend your failed attempt at gaining support towards your cause, which ultimately led to you retreating from further scrutiny.

All I have done is attempt to provide scientific insight and life-experience to your already heavily-biased opinion, and all you have done is throw it back in my face because you are defending a personal belief rather than fact.  Regardless of your inability to see reason and logic, I was content and willing to continue with this discussion in a civil manner for the sake of healthy debate until I witnessed you accusing me of being a drunk and a liar.  That in itself immediately branded you as a childish brat in front of all the users reading this thread, and I no longer feel the need to attempt to educate you since I realize that it would fall on deaf ears.

I hope, for your sake, that you will one day realize that not everyone is going to agree with your opinions and that you don't need to publicly insult those who prefer to argue their side of it... or, at the very least, that you'll one day learn to check your spelling.

[Silvermink]

Yeah, pretty much what Naetholix said. BabyCheetah, you came into this discussion with a chip on your shoulder and are leaving with it still firmly in place. Sorry you didn't find the support you were looking for, but I just don't think your opinion is well-considered and your personal attacks aren't helping your case.

I understand you have a bad history with alcohol, and have a negative view of it as a result. I think using it as an explanation of your existing views is one thing and understandable, but lashing out at those who disagree and blithely refusing to consider any other viewpoint than your own is not.

[Mikau Seafox]

Having been to furmeets back in the day (which was not so long ago, in the mysterious land, of Toronto, Canada... where Scott Pilgrim was dating a high schooler; okay no, I'm kidding, seriously) where alcohol was involved and was NOT involved, I'm going to agree with the alcohol limit idea with Ludro on this one.

In hindsight, I have seen quite a few folks who were out of hand after being drunk, at both furmeets and fur conventions, and I've acted out of hand a few times myself after overindulging, sure, but let's face a few things here. Yes, people are stupid before and after they've had about four Appletinis, but not everyone is stupid. Some can be smart and act like an idiot after being hammered, some can be dumb and then turn smart, and some can still remain smart, even after having a few (now there's a mental image that's totally rare).

If the government wants to put a ban on booze, go ahead and let them try. Everyone will complain about it, like we're doing to the HST, even though it's in referendum.

[Silvermink]

If the government wants to put a ban on booze, go ahead and let them try. Everyone will complain about it, like we're doing to the HST, even though it's in referendum.

I think the US government tried that once and it didn't go too well. ;)

[LudroLycandrel]

If anything it'll provide organized crime another excuse to fill the air full of bullets... but that's a tangent for another time

[Selkit]

Having been to furmeets back in the day (which was not so long ago, in the mysterious land, of Toronto, Canada... where Scott Pilgrim was dating a high schooler; okay no, I'm kidding, seriously) where alcohol was involved and was NOT involved, I'm going to agree with the alcohol limit idea with Ludro on this one.

In hindsight, I have seen quite a few folks who were out of hand after being drunk, at both furmeets and fur conventions, and I've acted out of hand a few times myself after overindulging, sure, but let's face a few things here. Yes, people are stupid before and after they've had about four Appletinis, but not everyone is stupid. Some can be smart and act like an idiot after being hammered, some can be dumb and then turn smart, and some can still remain smart, even after having a few (now there's a mental image that's totally rare).

If the government wants to put a ban on booze, go ahead and let them try. Everyone will complain about it, like we're doing to the HST, even though it's in referendum.

Not to, um... point out your massive hypocrisy in saying that, Mikau, but you yourself openly stated you had come to Gizmo's new years party yesterday "To practice your drinking".

I believe that further reinforces my point that limitation is not the issue, but responsibility and self-restraint.

[snazzy101]

Well I have no say in the matter because Ive never been drunk. However I have no negative feelings for those who have.
Be Happy everyone

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