Say "No" To the HST

[Drake Wingfire]

I am with Kithop on this one, the whole "will help people by making more jobs and getting better wages" is a big butter covered lie. I don't believe for a single second that the actual hard working employees will see ANY of this suppose "trickle down" money. Hell just look at the liberals right now, they gave themselves HUGE wage increases and yet ADAMANTLY say that minimum wage need to go no where because the youth average is $12.05 and thats plenty enough to keep up with the cost of living.... hell I would agree if it wasn't for the fact that "youth" is classified as age 18-24 and most people I know in that age group average around nine freaking bucks an hour.... from "generous" employers.

They get a  54% wage increase to help them with the cost of living (I guess they needed some new Mercedes and travel jets  ::) ) yet people who gotta decide between cheap food and making rent are "living the good life" already.

I signed that HST petition, if this was a real democracy maybe it would get us somewhere, but the liberals have turned this into a dictatorship by working against the people who voted them into power and more or less screwing over the younger generations with frozen wages, school cutbacks and allowing rampant tuition increases! (and then they wonder why BC has been lacking upkeep in the trades workforce)

[Lune]

rampant tuition increases! (and then they wonder why BC has been lacking upkeep in the trades workforce)

Yay stats.  

Stats Canada (2009/2010)
National Average tuition $4917
BC $4840

Noting Quebec has a big impact on the average statistic, BC has among the lowest rates in English speaking Canada and the slowest increases.

Stats Canada (2006)
National Average people over the age of 15 with secondary education - 51%
BC 52%

[Univaded_Fox]

So it's here.  HELL NO!

[Acco]

Well, the world hasn't ended yet.

[Kardrack]

Pretty much the entire north voted no on this.  But of course, Gordon's area voted yes and due to the population whatever the vancouver area wants, they get.  The rest of BC doesn't matter.  It shouldn't go buy population but by number of regions that do or don't want it.  Voting finals by population was a bad idea.  If it was one vote per region, there would be no HST.  Seriously, every time Gordon wants something he somehow gets the majority of Vancouver to side with him so they decide everything for BC.  Totally unfair.

[Sowaka]

Pretty much the entire north voted no on this.  But of course, Gordon's area voted yes and due to the population whatever the vancouver area wants, they get.  The rest of BC doesn't matter.  It shouldn't go by population but by number of regions that do or don't want it.  Voting finals by population was a bad idea.  If it was one vote per region, there would be no HST.  Seriously, every time Gordon wants something he somehow gets the majority of Vancouver to side with him so they decide everything for BC.  Totally unfair.

I never read up on the voting for HST, but doesn't that just mean that more people wanted HST in, rather than more regions that contained fewer people? I never understood why a region with 1,000 people would have a vote that weighs the same as a region with 5,000 people.

And seriously, this is meant to be revenue neutral, it helps small businesses and lower income families, how is this a BAD thing? Other than the confusion with groceries and a few pennies to your already overpriced meal, what are the down-sides? It's eliminating GST, which put a burden on manufacturers, and is supported by the majority of economists, and I'd trust their opinions more than the people who only know that HST is making their coffee from Starbucks cost more.

[Kithop]

Except the numbers aren't adding up and it's not 'revenue-neutral' - it's a $1.9 billion shift in tax load from corporations and businesses to citizens, and $1.5 billion in additional taxes per year ongoing:

http://www.strategicthoughts.com/record2009/HSTgrab.html
http://www.straight.com/article-331950/vancouver/maureen-bader-bcs-hst-stands-hidden-sales-taxes

Now, I haven't done this research myself, so I'm reading what the media, etc. are saying second-hand, but feel free to search for that magic $1.9 billion number and you'll see it reported all over the place.

I agree with the fundamental principle of simplifying our tax code, and hell, with the general idea of just having a single sales tax to worry about - but the devil is in the details, and this implementation is another blow to the common citizen in favour of businesses and corporations.

[Kardrack]

Egg on my face here.  Turns out Vancouver area also voted no.  Ottawa just decided to ignore the petition so a court case might happen.  For the region vs population thing, that's because different regions work very differently.  Like how they funneled money away from the northwest to pay for things like Vancouver's Olympic convention center rather than letting us keep the money so we don't have to close schools and shrink hospitals.  And sending our trees to be shipped overseas to be processed rather than keeping it in the northwest.  Majority in the south said sure since it was cheaper while up here, it screws us over and makes ghost towns out of industrial towns that need the jobs.  That's why it should be one vote per region rather than just per person.  Gordon keeps funneling money from us to pay for stuff in Van.  Also for the whole tax thing for simplifying it.  Remember how the GST was declared a temporary tax when it was created?  So how long is temporary?  Oh also, I don't trust anything out of a Liberal's mouth after they "leased" Via rail for 999 years to avoid actually saying they sold it.

[Univaded_Fox]

*Sigh*  My Art Institute card gets me 10% off the prices at the local McDonalds.  Well, I used it for the first time yesterday.  I bought two fajitas for $3,89, but adjusting for HST it still came to $3,99!

[Silvermink]

That's why it should be one vote per region rather than just per person.

I agree that there are problems with the urban/rural population split, but do you see a problem when my vote is worth less just because I happen to live in a heavily-populated riding? I think the government just needs to do a better job of addressing rural issues rather than pandering for votes.

As for the HST, I've always been skeptical about the doomsday scenarios. I know there are legitimate concerns but I always feel like people like Vander Zalm are appealing to the "aw, man, I hate taxes" sentiment.

[Tony Greyfox]

Kardrack, there was never a vote on the HST; it wasn't on the table before the last provincial election, and was brought in by the Liberals after the election when there was nothing anyone could really do about it. The petition that's been put together is being done under the province's initiative legislation; every riding in BC has produced the signatures of more than 15 percent of registered voters, well above the necessary 10 percent.
What happens now is that is verified by Elections BC, and if the government hasn't found a way to block it, renege on that arrangement, get the petition thrown out legally, or otherwise bailed themselves out, they can either take the proposed legislation for a vote - in which case it will lose because the Liberals have a majority - or put it out for a referendum, which could go either way.
No matter what they pull out, the government's going to get beat up in the next election - if the electorate remembers this by then. (Since the electorate's memory is usually about two years, that's why the Libs brought it in at the start of the four-year election cycle.)