BC Furries

As we all know, the Harmonic Sales Tax, HST for short, is well on its way towards this province, which will merge the two taxes together as one, forcing us to pay an additional 7% on everything we buy. And a lot of protests have been sparked when it was first announced, giving it two names: the Harper Sales Tax (overheard from a number of citizens) and the Horse Shit Tax (The Province). As such, it's still being protested against, and I can understand why: Who wants another tax added to the province?

For those who may not know, there is a website, dedicated to strike down the tax that will also slap the restaurants in the proverbial face, and every restaurant, fast food eatery, coffee shop and juice bar, are very concerned about it, stating that by adding 7% to the food tax, it's going to ruin their businesses. You can sign the petition and leave a comment on the site there.
http://www2.nomealtax.ca/ (http://www2.nomealtax.ca/)

I've also added a poll to see who wants/doesn't want the HST to happen. There is a guy who wrote an article in a 24 Hours paper saying the HST should be 15% instead of 12%, and of course, a lot of people got very pissed off about it.

This topic is open for any and all discussion.

: Mikau Seafox  January 02, 2010, 10:49:45 -07:00
the Horse Shit Tax (The Province).

I have one thing to say to that... *Takes a shit on the taxes* Neigh!

Well looks like I'm even more broke now. *Sigh* We're all doomed to hobo-ism.

See, this is why I hate our premier.  Gordon was actually given an option.  Several million dollars all at once given to the province if he agrees to the HST or No HST and they don't give him that money.  This HST is just stupid.  Hey, we're in a recession so what do we do?  Pay more taxes!  Perfect logic!  When we have no money, we should pay more money.  Damn these gov's are stupid.  The liberal Prime minster candidate (I forget his name) was opposing the HST then agreed to it.  He said on the radio he totally opposes it but he's signing it anyway.  What is wrong with these people?

Already signed a petition opposing it. I make little enough as it is now, with the tax, I'll have even less left over. I think I speak for everyone on the board in this regard.

It's hard enough for me that I can't even find a job. I couldn't find one out in Vancouver/Burnaby/Surrey, and even living here in Mission there's nothing available. If this keeps up with how expensive life is, I'm gonna end up living with my mom till I'm 30. No future for the lose!

PS: If this is the Horse Shit Tax, can I pay in fecal matter? It would make life alot easier for me.

: Wrath  January 03, 2010, 03:59:11 -07:00I'm gonna end up living with my mom till I'm 30.

Like I am...  :-\

Just FYI, don't get 'Liberal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_of_Canada)' (federal) and 'BC Liberal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Liberals)' (provincial) confused - they are not the same party, and I believe the BC Liberals actually severed ties with the federal ones.  BC Liberal = the new name for the old 'Social Credit', aka the right-wing corporatist McCarthyists (pretty much the anti-NDP), so I'm not surprised they're pulling this kind of crap now.

The local Tim Hortons here actually has paper copies of the petition you can sign, right by the cashiers.  Basically, from what I understand, this HST thing basically means that things that are currently PST-exempt (food, kids clothes, etc. (http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/business/Consumer_Taxes/Provincial_Sales_Tax/exemptions.htm)) no longer will be, because the harmonized tax means you just get one combined federal/provincial line item on your receipts.  That's where the 7% hike comes from - our current PST is 7%. :p

Long and short of it is that it's a cash grab by the provincial gov't, so they can turn around and pass it to their buddies in construction for the Olympics under the guise of job creation... we all know how well trickle-down economics works, though. c.c

While usually I'm not completely opposed to tax hikes, another resident-punishing tax coming on the heels of a combined reduction in business property tax and hike in residential property tax from the same gov't, claiming to 'even things out after years of inequity' leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

Ahhh politics..

Well folks, having been living in Montreal all my life up til August, when I moved over to this side of the country, I have felt the sting of taxes. Only I never knew it was that bad, since it was just normal... Over there, we used to be taxed about 15% on our meals at restaurants and fast food joints (A pro to that was always knowing how much to tip lol). These days it's about 13.5%. And people live on... If you can't handle it... make your meals at home. Feel like being fancy? Make a big meal and invite people over, have them bring a nice bottle of vino or some crusty bread, and you got yourself the makings of an excellent evening, without the tax woes.

And the Olympics? HAHAHAHAAA. Montreal just finished paying theirs off... and when did Montreal have their Olympics?? That's right. Vancouver (and BC) will be feeling the pinch for YEARS to come.

: Kithop  January 04, 2010, 08:56:42 -07:00
The local Tim Hortons here actually has paper copies of the petition you can sign, right by the cashiers.  Basically, from what I understand, this HST thing basically means that things that are currently PST-exempt (food, kids clothes, etc. (http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/business/Consumer_Taxes/Provincial_Sales_Tax/exemptions.htm)) no longer will be, because the harmonized tax means you just get one combined federal/provincial line item on your receipts.  That's where the 7% hike comes from - our current PST is 7%. :p

I've seen other places doing that as well - A&W, for example. I've already signed the petition. It may be a losing battle, but we can't give up.

While I myself dislike all political parties (#1 being the BC Liberals), the NDP sees this tax as a bullshit tax, and Carole James is stepping up to fight it off. I may not be partial to the NDP, but the NDP is all we got.

Oh duck no, I'm not letting the NDP touch BC after that ducked up reign of poopyness last time.

I say let the conservative party have a shot. As in the BC conservatives that just started running last election.

Regardless, it'll be another few years before we can eject/reelect them.

The BC Conservatives are all but a dead party - even the Greens have more chance than them nowadays... they had almost 4 times the popular vote (~8% vs the C's ~2%) last election.  Reason being, the BC 'Liberals' actually took the Conservative platform from them and merged it with the old SoCreds.

I'm a big federal NDP supporter (Jack Layton seems to have his head screwed on and they're winning big concessions in parliament), but I'm also wary of the provincial ones and their long history of screw-ups.  BC politics has degraded into 'who sucks the least?' and honestly I don't even have an answer there.  I'd be tempted to let the Greens have a go at it if it weren't for the fact that they booted all their sane and rational people in favour of towing the Greenpeace line.

Can we have a party of smart people who think things through rationally and try to do what's best for the people instead of their special interests? :p  Right... doesn't exist, I know...

I have to agree with Kithop on how Jack Layton has his head screwed on. But unfortunately I don't care much for any party. That's why I never vote or participate in government BS.

I have only had two chances to vote and taken both of them although they did not turn out they way I wanted I still got my say.

Horseh  dont like politics  :P

I vote that the government stops giving themselves massive wages and start spending the money they gathered in a more sensible manner. I'm a little tired of hearing about how many times someone in the government has gotten a pay raise or some massive bonus. And yet, the minimum wage of a worker hasn't really gone up all that much. Ok, so say we do start start paying this HST, but what are the chances that they wouldn't spend the money gathered from it any more sensibly? It just seems to me that things are going to get worse and worse. Everything is just going to keep costing more and how do they expect the average person to be able to keep up? I know, everyone wants money, but where's it going to come from?

: Leinad  January 09, 2010, 06:43:04 -07:00
Horseh  dont like politics  :P

Lolwut? You be a horse? If so, hello Horsie :D I am not a horse for I have a fish tail! *Splashes water and kelp at joo*

mmmm, kelp.....kinda salty :P

Ok, there's an official campaign being spearheaded by Bill Vander Zalm, which has been approved by Elections BC.  The campaign is looking for volunteers to collect signatures.  With 50 volunteers in each riding, that means only 100 signatures per canvasser to stop the HST.

The campaign will run from 6 April and will end on 5 July, and ONLY signatures collected by the volunteers will be accepted by Elections BC.

There are already 1700 volunteers (of which I have just signed up as one), but there needs to be about three times that number.

The website to volunteer is fighthst.com (http://fighthst.com).

(Disclaimer:  I am a member of the federal Liberals (but I wouldn't touch the BC "Liberals" with a bargepole), and of the Alliance Party of Northern Ireland (http://www.allianceparty.org/).)

Isn't it interesting how two people have voted in favour of the HST, but have yet to explain why they have.

: Accophox  January 06, 2010, 12:23:15 -07:00
Oh duck no, I'm not letting the NDP touch BC after that ducked up reign of poopyness last time.

I say let the conservative party have a shot. As in the BC conservatives that just started running last election.

Regardless, it'll be another few years before we can eject/reelect them.

Eugh. I'm gonna pass on a party even more right-wing than the supposedly-centrist party that's currently in power, thanks.I frankly don't really like any of the options on the table provincially.

That said, I'm skeptical that the HST is going to be the disaster that everyone predicts. The two-tax system is goofy. I don't know if this is the best way to get rid of it, but it's a relic and it needs to be gotten rid of.

: Rukario  March 05, 2010, 06:08:03 -07:00Bill Vander Zalm

Kill it with fire!

What's with the wording of the poll, anyway? Ruin BC "more"? Is it already ruined?

As someone who has seen a lot of bad ideas come from provincial governments all the way back to W.A.C. Bennett, this one is really high on the list.  Then again there is a truth that is coming to light that even a lot of Liberal supporters are realizing, this government totally and unabashedly sucks arse, the worst ever in Canadian political history.

As for the HST they wouldn't have had as many problems with it if they had not decided to tax so many goods and services that are not taxed at this time.  To bring in a new taxation system that potentially streamlines the process of doing business is a good thing. Bringing in a new tax that will add to the cost of living, hurt the poor and exacerbate inflation is plain stupid. However, remember that this provincial government is a far right, corporate neo con oligarchy that has the blood of disabled citizens on its hands. ( As of last week more cut backs to the disabled were made public,  mostly for HIV and diabetic meds. as well as the loss of a 75 dollar shelter allowance and the closures of several social service offices.   NO government has attacked its weakest citizens like this before, not the 1980's restraint era So Creds under Bill Bennett.)   Even the United Nations once issued a statement about its concerns and condemnation of some of Gordon Campbell's tactics.  Gordon Campbell is like those Australian teens who kicked the snot out that Canadian guy in a wheel chair when he was in Sydney. . . cowardly piece of crap! 

People don't realize how seriously we are about to get shoved into the hurt locker by these bullies. There is another increase to the gas tax coming along with the HST. The HST is reportedly going to be applied to the gas tax, (a tax on a tax.)  There is an expected increase to hydro and gas rates coming soonish. The govt is also cutting funding to the arts and for some sports programs, funding to children's playgrounds and school programs. They recently stole money from ICBC to prop up their faulty fudgit budget. (They had plenty of practice in stealing BC Rail so their theft from ICBC doesn't surprise me.)  Gordo has been delaying and interfering in the BC Rail investigations, and the premier's office has been allegedly involved in destroying documentation and e mails.  One of my inside sources who is a published railway historian has told me that if the full details of the BC Rail scandal come to light it will finish this government.
( Can anybody say 21st century Pacific Railway Scandal?  sure you can. ) 

If the HST vote goes well and it is rejected then the next thing should be to start a recall campaign on Gordon "the butcher" Campbell, Rich "I'm better than all of you" Coleman, Kevin "I flew into a window" Falcon and that damned sniveling weasel Colin "Cancer" Hansen. 

There are currently no good alternatives to vote for, why do you all think that the last election had its lowest turn out?  Lack of a good alternative and the constant pro Campbell media using cool looking bar graphs to show they were ahead in the polls. They successfully demoralized the public in a classic divide and conquer tactic that split the left leaning voters. The NDP were a financial nightmare and Carol James just doesn't seem to have the jam needed to slay Gordo the merciless. They also made a huge blunder in hiring Slow Mihota in their ranks, ( major fail to bring in anyone from the 1990's!)  Anyone else? the Green party? nope,  conservative?  Fine but they are  pretty irrelevant right now.

The bottom line is this, its a dysfunctional provincial political landscape fraught with extremists on all sides. The parties are so polarized and so far apart in viewpoints that any sense of co operation over party lines is almost unheard of.   Kithop wrote - " BC Liberal = the new name for the old 'Social Credit', aka the right-wing corporatist McCarthyists." I agree with this,  although  Mc Carthy spent his time looking for communists under every bed,  Campbell is spending his looking for cripples to kill. 

Link to an article on disability cuts -  http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/03/09/DisabledBudgetCuts/ (http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2010/03/09/DisabledBudgetCuts/)

Tell us what you REALLY think, Lope.

Lope, good assessment of what the Campbell government is doing to BC.  Indeed, the BC "Liberals" are really neocon Thatcherites.  (Can you say "New Labour"?)  Gordon Campbell, Gordon Brown, they're much the same.  But the problem is, there is no alternative amongst the current troupe of clowns.  I couldn't stand the way that El Gordo (the other one) was f***ing up the UK; now it seems I've actually gone from the frying pan into the fire.

To the list -  Sorry if I came off as being very agitated,  I rarely get this annoyed over what those greasy politicians in Victoria do.  I really get my back up when bullies start to hurt those that have no ability to defend themselves. I live in a place that is part social housing, many disabled people live in this complex. Some of them have showed me letters and notifications from the govt. where their benefits are being scaled back or their access to govt. services are being cut.  I have seen the effects of the cuts firsthand, the worry and fear on the faces of people who don't know if they'll have a home or a province left in the coming months and years.

We are trying to get federal money to rebuild our complex which would ensure a secure future for the disabled residents living here. The things we are hearing from the Gordon Campbell regime sound like an approaching tornado that is about to blow our lives apart.

Seriously, Lope - when it directly affects you like it does so many people in this province, you have every right to kick and scream about it and make a fuss.  I'm thankful I'm not really in that kind of situation, but I'm still racking up debt while on EI trying to find work in my career (because, you know - they give you just enough to make going down to some place like McDonald's not worth your time, but you're not allowed to go to school to finish your training or pretty much work part-time much at all to actually not spend yourself into debt), so it makes it just that much harder to make ends meet in the meantime.

I can only imagine what it must be like for the multitudes of people even worse off than me - and for what?  What benefit does this kind of crap they pull bring to society?  I thought government was supposed to be for the people, you know - all the people.  Not just the rich, not just the poor, but everyone.  If the tax code is really that bad that businesses see a need to streamline it, that's cool - let's help them out, but not at the expense of the common man, especially those who are already struggling and hurting the most.  Hell, take anything that was PST-exempt and make it HST-exempt, and bump up the HST half a percent on the remainder to compensate (or whatever math magic makes it work so the end-result is the same) - you get your harmonized tax that helps businesses, and you give a break to the poor by knocking the old GST off vital goods and services as well!

Of course, then you get the middle class screaming, but wait - these are goods and services taxes, and the items in question tend to be necessities everyone buys.  Everyone has to eat food, right?  So really you're just increasing the 'luxury' tax on non-necessities while striving to keep food affordable for everyone, rich or poor.

I'm sure that's not the only way to do it, and I'm sure there's likely big gaping flaws in my suggestion, but can we really believe that what they're proposing is the best they could come up with? :/  The BC Liberals have made it blatantly obvious whose interests they serve, time and time again, and it's not ours.  It's sad that they really don't have much in the way of opposition.  As much as I like the federal NDP, I can't bring myself to really want to know what would happen with the BC guys in again (admit it - they royally screwed up, too), and the thought of someone like the Greens getting in, while it would be... interesting, would be throwing a lot on to such a small party that likely hasn't had the time or experience to actually figure out all of it's non-environmental policies. :p  Throw them an issue that has nothing whatsoever to do with the environment so their easy-choice answer is gone, and watch them squirm, you know?

I have a sinking feeling that issues like this are going to be at the forefront next election, and the parties will just polarize into everyone vs. the BC Liberals, votes will get split along the minor issues or who has the best tie amongst those other parties, and Gordo gets in again by default to give us more of the shaft. >.< *sigh*

I know I have voted no to the HST, who wants to be taxed on Food? or being taxed on things we have never had taxes on before? not I. I really dont want to get into a full out talk on this. I just wanted to stay my "Small two cents" and say to to it.

This is why I am Buying a house outright cash so I dont have to get screwed by the HST before it comes out.

and I honestly feel sorry now for people that look to own but will not beable to unless they win the loto :(

I think most of us have resigned to the fact that owning property outright in Metro Vancouver is a near impossibility. :p

I am buying a place as we speak ^.^,

Then again I live in the waterkin area (Kelowna)

: KodaOtter  March 11, 2010, 05:01:54 -07:00
I am buying a place as we speak ^.^,

Then again I live in the waterkin area (Kelowna)

Ah.  Makes more sense. :p

You know, I've never been further east in B.C. than Chilliwack... not even as far as Hope.  What's it like out there? n.n  I remember seeing the stories of the forest fires and stuff on the news for the past few years, which sucks, but is it fairly built up or still quite small-town-ish?  Would be nice to know if some recruiter sees my resume and is like 'you need to move this way'; I've already had someone offer me a mediocre job in Prince George that I turned down. @.x

: Kithop  March 11, 2010, 05:08:48 -07:00
Ah.  Makes more sense. :p

You know, I've never been further east in B.C. than Chilliwack... not even as far as Hope.  What's it like out there? n.n  I remember seeing the stories of the forest fires and stuff on the news for the past few years, which sucks, but is it fairly built up or still quite small-town-ish?  Would be nice to know if some recruiter sees my resume and is like 'you need to move this way'; I've already had someone offer me a mediocre job in Prince George that I turned down. @.x

its a big place now. and ya the firestorm of 2003 and the one Last year was a bad one, I was on evacuation in that one. hey once I get my house. maybe you can come up and visit ^.^ you would love it. there is a lot to see and a lot to do if you know where to go :P this is Otter Country up here ^.^ lots of water :P

Add me to MSN if you have it koda.falken@gmail.com

: Lope  March 11, 2010, 02:48:01 -07:00The NDP were a financial nightmare and Carol James just doesn't seem to have the jam needed to slay Gordo the merciless.

The NDP has exactly one guy with any jam whatsoever, and that's Adrian Dix.

i have been wondering about all this hst thing more and more because of all the negative info. does anyone know if there are ANY good points ? I want to know both sides before I decide to hate it or love it. I've had trouble finding the actual hst proposal... I want to read that before I get too upset. I find that a lot of the time most people don't even know ALL the facts.

Thanks to Carthage I have learned a lot about politics that i never knew.

from the web sites I have read I have confused myself more so though. I have a hard time learning some concepts. one site says hst will NOT be on gas, oils, and a bunch of medical stuff.. I've also read that low income families will be getting 230 bucks a year for the hst thing. I of course want to know what is what since I am on disability and live below the poverty line.

so if anyone knows fact to fact what the hst is for instead of "what everyone says". I don't mean to offend ANYONE so .. if I just did... I'm sorry.. I am simply aware that I just dont understand a lot about it.

and I unfortunately need to explained to me like a child.

Hey velvet,

I can't say I know too much about this stuff myself, but I did find one place which seemed to present at least some of the supposed pros/cons of the HST:
http://209.200.253.26/special/parrysound/forum/index.php?topic=954.0 (http://209.200.253.26/special/parrysound/forum/index.php?topic=954.0)

Hopefully you'll find that a little bit informative as a starting point. I definitely agree with you that before you decide to lobby against something you really need to hear both sides of the story.

I mean there IS a reason that some people want this to happen, and its not going to be as neat and tidy as "They're the rich people." or "They're the bad guys".

So if I'm reading that right, their reasoning is that within the next decade, it will save businesses a bunch of money, that they can then turn around and use to create jobs.

Of course, nothing says that a) those jobs are going to be on Canadian soil in the first place and not just outsourced/offshored overseas, or b) that the companies will take that entire chunk of savings and spend it on job creation in the first place - surely their shareholders will want a cut, they might buy some of their own stock back, re-invest it elsewhere in the market, sink it into material costs to replace aging internal infrastructure, etc. (and in the case of the infrastructure one, that usually means streamlining.  And streamlining with better, faster, newer equipment can just as easily mean job cuts as less staff are required to maintain their systems...)

In the meantime, while we hope these magic jobs materialize, everyone who's already struggling to make ends meet and feed their families, etc., get hit with a tax hike on necessary goods and services.  While I applaud attempts to stimulate job growth and fix the economy, screwing over the poor is not the way to do it.  By itself, the HST push may seem innocuous, but when combined with all the other things Gordon Campbell has done during his past few terms that blatantly show complete disregard and even contempt for our poor and homeless, all I can say is 'I'm not surprised.'

I just thought I'd throw some more food on the table for thought, the provincial govt. is becoming quite adept at instituting stealth taxes. The HST is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg when it comes to the post Olympic pain we are all going to feel now that the bills are going to start coming in.  This, the draconian cuts, the mean spirited nature of the govt. and the BC Rail scandal will in all likelihood be the end of the premier's political career, and not a second too soon!

This is quoted from "The Examiner"  concerning the soon to come dramatic rise in the cost of living/inflation.

" If you're among the fortunate ones to have to weathered the recession, kept your job, and dutifully paid your taxes on time, there's no respite or reward for you in 2010. Gordon Campbell's British Columbia is piling on the stealth taxes, and while you might not notice most of them, the effect on your pocketbook could be quite sizable.

1.)  There's the fee increase of the Medical Services Plan from $53 per individual to $56, from $96 for a family of two to $102, and from $108 to $114 for a family of three or more. There is no opt-out plan for MSP in British Columbia, which means that for a family of two or more, your taxes just went up $72 for the year.

2.) There's BC Hydro's proposed rate increases of 33% over the next four years. B.C. Hydro applied for a 9.1% rate increase to the B.C. Utilities Commission to begin on April 1. If approved, it could cost up to $84 extra per year for electricity for the average use home.

3.) More bad news if you live on the island and need to commute to the mainland. BC Ferries raised their rates again, beginning April 1 by $1.75 more between the Lower mainland and Vancouver, and by $3.30 more on the round trip from Horseshoe Bay to the Sunshine Coast.

4.) While Terasen Gas is a private corporation, you won't find any relief on your utilities bill. Terasen today announced a rate increase of 6% which it will seek approval from the B.C. Utilities Commission. That would push the average natural gas user's annual bill to increase between $49 and $62.

5.)  If all that wasn't bad enough, the much hated carbon tax is set to rise once again on July 1, from the 3.33 cent tax per litre currently, to 4.45 cents per litre. But that tax won't just hit you at the pump. You'll pay more if you buy Kerosene, Methanol, Propane, Butane, Ethanol, or any other hydrocarbon, including that natural gas bill that just went up.

6.) The final nail in your fiscal coffin could be the dreaded HST coming in July as well, which will add a 7% tax on a score of products and services previously exempt. The increased price of items is expected to drive inflation, even as it will curb consumer appetite, partially reversing the economic recovery.

For people living in Vancouver, adding these stealth taxes won't do much to change Vancouver's number one spot for least affordable metropolitan market in the English world. " 

Let us not forget that as of April 1st Transklunk is raising fares for transit monthly passes and FareSaver ticket prices, Cash fare prices are supposed to remain the same.

When I buy a house in the future it won't be in this province!

Wow... heated discussion...

How many of you have actually researched other places that have implemented HST, or equivalent global taxation on goods and services, and the subsequent effect it has had on their economies?

New Brunswick (my home province) implemented HST in 1996 http://www.gnb.ca/0162/tax/hst-e.asp (http://www.gnb.ca/0162/tax/hst-e.asp) Newfoundland and Nova Scotia also have HST.
These are much poorer provinces than BC and they bitched less about it.

The European Union has the VAT (Value Added Tax) http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/index_en.htm (http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/index_en.htm)
The EU has an amazing standard of living, and despite the global economic situation still has one of the top 5 valued currencies worldwide.

Granted we cannot be guarenteed that all the tax revenues from the HST will all go towards improving our lives, but a lot of stuff gets bought here. That a lot of money to be spread around.

Just some food for thought.

Probably because we've just been nailed with a huge blow to our economy in the falloff from the Olympics, many of us, including myself, have been laid off and are having trouble finding work, and this HST equates to a big tax hike on food so Mr. Campbell can further spend it on his big business buddies.

If we had someone in power who actually gave two shits about the homeless situation and was planning on spending the increased tax revenue on fixing it, I might be able to hold my tongue - there's people worse off than me, so raising my taxes to help them out is fair.  Raising it while 'companies' (that should have stayed 100% crown corp) like Translink can continue to post record profits and give out bonuses while hiking fares at the same time to further nail people who can't afford to drive and continuing to completely ignore or dismiss the issues in the downtown east side is unfair and demeaning.

I think the clarification needs to be made - we're not protesting taxes, we're protesting unfair taxes.

Yanno, something needs to be done about the debt. All that can be said on the matter is the taxes will come one way or another.

: Digi-Fox  March 20, 2010, 02:12:36 -06:00When I buy a house in the future it won't be in this province!

"Long Gone To Saskatchewan" By Corb Lund and the Hurtin Albertans comes to mind....

After much debate and angst the day has arrived when BC residents will have to open their wallets, money belts etc. and bend over.  The HST, ( and the Gas Tax increase ) has just made life a bit more interesting and expensive, ( remember that the Gas tax has just gone up 2.4 cents per liter, ( or almost 10 cents per Imperial gallon. )  as of this morning.  The anti HST people delivered the 700,000 plus name petition to Elections BC this afternoon amid much media fanfare.  The government simply raised an eyebrow and all its members and supporters simply said that they were going ahead with the tax no matter what.  We have heard plenty of arguments on both sides of the issue as to what is going to happen from here on.  The time for talk is over, now we are going to start seeing what is really going to happen.  How many working poor and those on low fixed incomes might this push over the edge to ruin?  Will the restaurant and food service industry take a big hit ?  Is this the last straw?, the thing that has damaged the current BC Govt. beyond the point of no return?  How much will inflation go up as a result of these tax increases?  Can transit fare increases be far behind? This and many other questions shall be answered in the coming days/weeks/months.

On the 18:00 hr evening news cast, (June 30th) the reporter covering the HST story said the simple formula to remember is what will be taxed by the HST is anything that is currently taxed by the GST.

http://hst.blog.gov.bc.ca/ (http://hst.blog.gov.bc.ca/)

I figured that I would post this link.

There is a lot of misinformation floating around in the media. When you get right down to it, there are so many benefits of the HST.

For those who don't feel they want to take the time to read, the hst includes:

- $230 credit for individuals making income of up to $20000 and families up to $25000
- 7% rebate on gasoline (essentially like paying only gst)
- 7% rebate on childrens items (ie clothes, car seats, diapers etc.)
- 7% rebate on heat and electrical
- rebate up to $26 250 on new house
- items that were previously gst exempt remain hst exempt
- manufacturing is taxed at the end of the manufacturing process instead of compounded, which will cut costs to buisnesses
- can claim the 12% HST you pay as an input tax credit, rather than previously only 5%

another fun fact is we are completely tax exempt in Washington state. Just proof of residences and you pay 0 tax.

yes on some items you will be paying an additional 7% that you wouldn't have paid before, but the rebates, credits, and eventual reduction of cost of manufactured items, make up for it. Most people will be able to continue their lives unaltered and will likely even benefit.

My $0.02

: Lope  July 01, 2010, 02:34:08 -06:00

After much debate and angst the day has arrived when BC residents will have to open their wallets, money belts etc. and bend over.  The HST, ( and the Gas Tax increase ) has just made life a bit more interesting and expensive, ( remember that the Gas tax has just gone up 2.4 cents per liter, ( or almost 10 cents per Imperial gallon. )  as of this morning.  The anti HST people delivered the 700,000 plus name petition to Elections BC this afternoon amid much media fanfare.  The government simply raised an eyebrow and all its members and supporters simply said that they were going ahead with the tax no matter what.  We have heard plenty of arguments on both sides of the issue as to what is going to happen from here on.  The time for talk is over, now we are going to start seeing what is really going to happen.  How many working poor and those on low fixed incomes might this push over the edge to ruin?  Will the restaurant and food service industry take a big hit ?  Is this the last straw?, the thing that has damaged the current BC Govt. beyond the point of no return?  How much will inflation go up as a result of these tax increases?  Can transit fare increases be far behind? This and many other questions shall be answered in the coming days/weeks/months.

On the 18:00 hr evening news cast, (June 30th) the reporter covering the HST story said the simple formula to remember is what will be taxed by the HST is anything that is currently taxed by the GST.

I'm going to make a controversial statement.  I approve of HST, the fact of the matter is there would be tax increases regardless as there should be and as a thrifty individual, the HST is a boon versus a increase in income taxes.

The HST will not break any families on the edge, people will get by it sounds cold but it is the truth.  The HST came to Nova Scotia over ten years ago,  15% on everything, and a bunch of other taxation programs ($150 auto registration every 2 years expensive much).  NS, had higher unemployment and was considered the low wage ghetto of the nation but people got by.  This extra money in the government coffers led to some much needed improvement in the province, would we have seen programs like the province wide composting program, Halifax Harbor clean up project, or the massive investments in renewable energy such as wind farms and tidal power I find it unlikely.

Quite frankly since moving here I have been more than satisfied with the government (aside from the road network  >:(), a low tax rate, minimal amount of fees and fairly efficiently run.  

There's one big, obvious reason why the government here is hiking taxes with the HST:

The Olympics.

As in, we need to pay all that stuff off, and as you know, the 'BC Liberals' (that are completely disconnected from the Federal ones) are just another name for the old Social Credit party that absolutely adores being in the pocket of big businesses and will do anything for their continued support and approval.

Like shift a huge chunk of the tax burden from them to common citizens that are already feeling pinched.  If we can't afford to buy their products, how are businesses supposed to recover?  Trickle-down economics just doesn't work, and I'm very skeptical that all those talking point benefits and bonuses actually add up, considering they've admitted they're shifting $1.9 billion of the tax load from businesses to citizens.  That's $1.9 billion out of our pockets that multinational corporations with offices here no longer have to pay (but will likely kick a chunk of back to Campbell's cronies as a 'thank you' and incentive to continue the process), and fat-cat CEOs will likely distribute amongst their top executives as a bonus for a job well done.  Will prices for their products go down in response?  Will their employees get a raise from all that extra saved cash?

As if.

It might also be to remove PST, a cascading tax system, which, like Tak said, charges tax on every step of the supply chain. According to wikipedia the cascading tax system has been abandoned by most economies in favor of a "value added tax" like GST. In the end... I think HST is meant to simplify and modernize everything, most economists support it and studies show that it will be revenue neutral. You're being charged more on certain things, but charged less on others. And honestly, unless you order take-out food every day... you probably don't have to worry too much about the 7% raise in taxes. And if the price hike makes THAT much of a difference to your budget... you should probably reconsider going to take-out joints and restaurants so often. With any luck the money the businesses save with the replacement of the cascading tax system will eventually trickle down into savings on the food you order at those places anyways.

And I REALLY doubt that HST is being introduced because of the Olympics. It's made to be revenue neutral, and we're not the first and only province to get HST.

"The tax attempts to build a more efficient tax system while not increasing sales tax revenues."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonized_Sales_Tax#cite_note-cdhowe-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonized_Sales_Tax#cite_note-cdhowe-1)

I am with Kithop on this one, the whole "will help people by making more jobs and getting better wages" is a big butter covered lie. I don't believe for a single second that the actual hard working employees will see ANY of this suppose "trickle down" money. Hell just look at the liberals right now, they gave themselves HUGE wage increases and yet ADAMANTLY say that minimum wage need to go no where because the youth average is $12.05 and thats plenty enough to keep up with the cost of living.... hell I would agree if it wasn't for the fact that "youth" is classified as age 18-24 and most people I know in that age group average around nine freaking bucks an hour.... from "generous" employers.

They get a  54% wage increase to help them with the cost of living (I guess they needed some new Mercedes and travel jets  ::) ) yet people who gotta decide between cheap food and making rent are "living the good life" already.

I signed that HST petition, if this was a real democracy maybe it would get us somewhere, but the liberals have turned this into a dictatorship by working against the people who voted them into power and more or less screwing over the younger generations with frozen wages, school cutbacks and allowing rampant tuition increases! (and then they wonder why BC has been lacking upkeep in the trades workforce)

rampant tuition increases! (and then they wonder why BC has been lacking upkeep in the trades workforce)

Yay stats.  

Stats Canada (2009/2010)
National Average tuition $4917
BC $4840

Noting Quebec has a big impact on the average statistic, BC has among the lowest rates in English speaking Canada and the slowest increases.

Stats Canada (2006)
National Average people over the age of 15 with secondary education - 51%
BC 52%

So it's here.  HELL NO!

Well, the world hasn't ended yet.

Pretty much the entire north voted no on this.  But of course, Gordon's area voted yes and due to the population whatever the vancouver area wants, they get.  The rest of BC doesn't matter.  It shouldn't go buy population but by number of regions that do or don't want it.  Voting finals by population was a bad idea.  If it was one vote per region, there would be no HST.  Seriously, every time Gordon wants something he somehow gets the majority of Vancouver to side with him so they decide everything for BC.  Totally unfair.

: Kardrack  July 05, 2010, 04:03:08 -06:00
Pretty much the entire north voted no on this.  But of course, Gordon's area voted yes and due to the population whatever the vancouver area wants, they get.  The rest of BC doesn't matter.  It shouldn't go by population but by number of regions that do or don't want it.  Voting finals by population was a bad idea.  If it was one vote per region, there would be no HST.  Seriously, every time Gordon wants something he somehow gets the majority of Vancouver to side with him so they decide everything for BC.  Totally unfair.

I never read up on the voting for HST, but doesn't that just mean that more people wanted HST in, rather than more regions that contained fewer people? I never understood why a region with 1,000 people would have a vote that weighs the same as a region with 5,000 people.

And seriously, this is meant to be revenue neutral, it helps small businesses and lower income families, how is this a BAD thing? Other than the confusion with groceries and a few pennies to your already overpriced meal, what are the down-sides? It's eliminating GST, which put a burden on manufacturers, and is supported by the majority of economists, and I'd trust their opinions more than the people who only know that HST is making their coffee from Starbucks cost more.

Except the numbers aren't adding up and it's not 'revenue-neutral' - it's a $1.9 billion shift in tax load from corporations and businesses to citizens, and $1.5 billion in additional taxes per year ongoing:

http://www.strategicthoughts.com/record2009/HSTgrab.html (http://www.strategicthoughts.com/record2009/HSTgrab.html)
http://www.straight.com/article-331950/vancouver/maureen-bader-bcs-hst-stands-hidden-sales-taxes (http://www.straight.com/article-331950/vancouver/maureen-bader-bcs-hst-stands-hidden-sales-taxes)

Now, I haven't done this research myself, so I'm reading what the media, etc. are saying second-hand, but feel free to search for that magic $1.9 billion number and you'll see it reported all over the place.

I agree with the fundamental principle of simplifying our tax code, and hell, with the general idea of just having a single sales tax to worry about - but the devil is in the details, and this implementation is another blow to the common citizen in favour of businesses and corporations.

Egg on my face here.  Turns out Vancouver area also voted no.  Ottawa just decided to ignore the petition so a court case might happen.  For the region vs population thing, that's because different regions work very differently.  Like how they funneled money away from the northwest to pay for things like Vancouver's Olympic convention center rather than letting us keep the money so we don't have to close schools and shrink hospitals.  And sending our trees to be shipped overseas to be processed rather than keeping it in the northwest.  Majority in the south said sure since it was cheaper while up here, it screws us over and makes ghost towns out of industrial towns that need the jobs.  That's why it should be one vote per region rather than just per person.  Gordon keeps funneling money from us to pay for stuff in Van.  Also for the whole tax thing for simplifying it.  Remember how the GST was declared a temporary tax when it was created?  So how long is temporary?  Oh also, I don't trust anything out of a Liberal's mouth after they "leased" Via rail for 999 years to avoid actually saying they sold it.

*Sigh*  My Art Institute card gets me 10% off the prices at the local McDonalds.  Well, I used it for the first time yesterday.  I bought two fajitas for $3,89, but adjusting for HST it still came to $3,99!

: Kardrack  July 05, 2010, 08:42:01 -06:00That's why it should be one vote per region rather than just per person.

I agree that there are problems with the urban/rural population split, but do you see a problem when my vote is worth less just because I happen to live in a heavily-populated riding? I think the government just needs to do a better job of addressing rural issues rather than pandering for votes.

As for the HST, I've always been skeptical about the doomsday scenarios. I know there are legitimate concerns but I always feel like people like Vander Zalm are appealing to the "aw, man, I hate taxes" sentiment.

Kardrack, there was never a vote on the HST; it wasn't on the table before the last provincial election, and was brought in by the Liberals after the election when there was nothing anyone could really do about it. The petition that's been put together is being done under the province's initiative legislation; every riding in BC has produced the signatures of more than 15 percent of registered voters, well above the necessary 10 percent.
What happens now is that is verified by Elections BC, and if the government hasn't found a way to block it, renege on that arrangement, get the petition thrown out legally, or otherwise bailed themselves out, they can either take the proposed legislation for a vote - in which case it will lose because the Liberals have a majority - or put it out for a referendum, which could go either way.
No matter what they pull out, the government's going to get beat up in the next election - if the electorate remembers this by then. (Since the electorate's memory is usually about two years, that's why the Libs brought it in at the start of the four-year election cycle.)