Creepy furry "filmographers"

[Univaded_Fox]

Part 1

Excuse the lateness of this reply.  It has been delayed due to my being sick and then preoccupied with matters postponed due to being sick over the past week.  This is also a portion of the forum that I do not visit often and I did not discover this thread until it was already long in the tooth.   Since my presence was a subject of the original post, I feel that I ought to weigh in on the issues of concern from my perspective.  I am going to address all of the concerns that I feel ought to be address chronologically according to the sequence in which they were posted.  I apologize if I repeat and reiterate what others have already said.

Original Post: Ember, I have seen you at these events and you have seen me.  We even talked a number of times.  For crying out loud, why didn't you mention any of this to me?  Yes, I know I'm ugly, but that's no reason to be put off from talking to me.  You can break-dance all over my spine if you get freaked out; I'm the one who should be afraid of you!  Talk to your roommates Sairys and Torwin, who I have worked with in the past.  For that matter, get back in here and comment on your own thread because its kind of a big deal now (sorry Torwin).  And for the record, I cut you out of the 2011 year in review bowling compilation footage because I thought maybe you didn't want your face on camera (and if that is the case the maybe you ought to reexamine the decision to open a Doghouse YouTube channel).  Was I recording anything at the two furmeets where you saw me last year?  Do I circle around the tables at dinner meets?  (Well no because nobody in their right mind records people while they are eating).  

Reply #2: Not only that, Kitten, but when I post in (the appropriate) threads "Hey, the photographs are up!" I add that if there any photographs that anybody wants removed or submitted to them privately, they can contact me.  So far, nobody has requested that I remove any photographs.  This is probably because I NEVER post anything that I WOULD NOT want the world to see.  Keep in mind people, bad photographs reflect badly upon the photographer inasmuch as the subject.  And I hate having to make people wait for my materials, but when it comes to a choice between giving you coal and giving you diamonds, I want to make diamonds.

Reply #4: Zenai, I am sure you are a lovely lady, but to be perfectly honest I don't know what you look like.  I have a hard time remembering faces that are not on fursuits; even the faces of suiters out of suit.  Lace will attest to that.  Roan gave me my first fursuit hug, but I didn't actually meet Lace unsuited for the first time until more than a year.  When I saw him again a few months later, I didn't recognize him!  Having seen Lace now a few times out of suit, I know what he looks like, but for many non-suiters, if I see you infrequently and we have not talked often, I probably don't remember your faces or your names.  Do not be offended: I am like this way with everyone.

This situation is compounded by one additional factor.  Now please, let nobody who does not wear a suit take this in offense.  I am strictly speaking from a photographer's subjectivity standpoint.  PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IN SUIT ARE BORING.  I see them all the time.  I go to furry events with the intent to record fursuits because there are FURSUITS.  Look at my photographs.  How many of them do not include fursuits?  Very few.  Everyone wants to see fursuits.  Fursuits are eye-candy.  Fursuits are golden.  Fursuits are anonymous; I can post as many pictures of them as I want and the wearer remains unseen. And fursuits are NEVER boring.  If it is "Fursuit Bowling" why should all of my pictures be focused on the furries who did not wear suits?  So if you are not in suit and there are suiters present, unless you flag me down or come sailing into the frame, I am not concentrating on you.  I am looking after the suiters, and when they start posing for me I know that they want to be seen.  Hence, Zenai, why I can't place your face to a name at the moment.

And while we are on the subject of non-suiters who do not want to be seen and how widespread is this issue, why is the most popular thread in this section of board entitled "RL Pics. The Faces Behind The Fur"?

Reply #6: It's a rule that you never let them see how good you are, but this is a special circumstance.  I go to a lot of trouble to keep out faces of persons who do not want to be in the shot.  And I am one of them.  Many of you know that I ask to please keep my face off of the internet because like many of you I am paranoid that someone who I do not want seeing such images will see such images and interpret them in an incorrect light.  (But for the record, my mother now knows that I work with "mascots" and she has even met Bandit and posed with him, which is more than I could get her to do with all of the Disney World characters which I met in 2010).

But even I accept that I cannot completely prohibit myself from being online.  I am in the background of a number of images and videos.  Look at that Guardian article.  They included...wait a minute, how come everyone else got a decent photograph except me?  Look, if you are going to show me off then at least bother to do it right!   There are least some basic rules this photographer could have applied while still maintaining anonymity, and judging from the other pictures this was clearly not a novice.  Don't stand directly behind me if I am not back-lit; this is not an advert for the Kheetah Cam's carrying case.  Come around to my right side and show that I was filming; otherwise I just look like a dork with a backpack sprouting a tail.  And for goodness sakes don't cutoff my tail!!!   It's the only furry thing that I have to wear.  How dare they include that half-assed image.  I'm devaluing their entire gallery!...Ahem.

My point is, I want to remain anonymous too, so why should I do against others what I do not want being done against myself?  There are persons who have asked that I do not include them in photographs and I try to respect their wishes to my ablest.  Now at some events suiters are going in and out of suit and my approach to situations of the like is this: If I see you out of suit, I won't record you unless you have told me that it is OK to do so.  I have actually written a number of suiters before uploading my photos after finding them in the background of specific shots, "I have photographs of you out of suit this time, do you want me to refrain from posting any of them?"  That so many have said "It's OK" must mean that I can be trusted.   Look at NitroShep.  There are shots of him at bowling last March from the back because I wanted to keep his face offline.  But at August he got into this big wrestling match with Tai and it was such a gem that I had to snap away.  When it was done I told him I wouldn't upload any of those pictures, but he told me that it was OK.   Trust isn't something that springs forth immaculate; it comes with experience.

I crop photos specifically to remove the faces of those who wish to remain undocumented.  I have even had to refrain from posting what I thought were worthwhile pictures because I could not remove the concerned person from the shot.  At bowling, you will notice that I try to angle myself if I see someone like Zen walk into the frame because he has asked me to cut him out.  At VancouFur, as difficult as it was, I was trying to do the same thing while on Kheetah Cam.  Look at the video where I wore Markus for the first time and appraise the faces of Aphinity and Spark's.  You can't see them!  I motion tracked blurs over their faces because I thought they would appreciate being kept out.  Look at the 2011 year in review bowling video (BTW, I realize that I keep saying "Look Look" but you may not no where to look so look here http://www.youtube.com/user/CameraFox and you can find them on BC Furries as well).  How many non-fursuit faces do you see?  How often does the camera hold on a non-fursuit face when it is not cut cut cutting?

I try not to get in the way of my subjects.  I try not to cross anybody else's axis.  I try not to get Kheetah on record when he is out of suit because he does not want to be seen.  I try and I say that 'I try' because I will admit that I do make mistakes.  Sometimes I become so focused on getting the image that I forget my surroundings.  And I tell people if that happens they should remind me.  I went into VancouFur telling the organizers "Don't let me get in your way, and I won't try but if I do let me know".  Nobody did.  Heck, people told me where events were happening specifically so that I would go and film them.  When The Burnaby News Leader interviewed everyone, and when CBC and CTV walked in the building, I was told "Be there."

And for the record, maybe when you see me photographing or filming you notice that I run away a lot.  I am not trying to escape.  I have to keep moving.  Here is hot it works: Get the shot, then go on to the next one.  If you are not on the ball, you are missing memories and moments that won't happen again.  I am extremely hard on myself for missing things that should have made great captures but I failed to get.  I move so I can get out of the way, either of my subjects of my fellow photographers/videographers, and get on to the next shot.

#8:  This is why I don't have an FA page, despite people pleading with me to get one.  Some people think I am odd for not having a Fury Affinity account.  Well, now you know one reason why.  That is not to say that none of my pictures are on Fur Affinity.  People have contacted me asking for permission to copy and upload my photographs.  I am flattered that they feel they are so good that they want to share them with the world and that they take the time to cite me as the photographs.  For the record, it would go a long way towards letting people know when they can see my work if it was uploaded on FA.  At VancouFur, I still had to go around telling people that I had not seen since Howloween 2010 that the footage of their suits was available because until that point I had no way to contact them.

Reply #10: Torwin, ElektroFuzz 2 photos are here http://www.bcfurries.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;cat=8.  I use to try and abstain from recording you at dances because you were out of suit; hence why there are not many images of you working the lighting equipment.  Then I found all those pictures of your face on your FA account and decided you were OK with it.  But, err, for the record, my name is not Uninvaded Fox.

Reply #19: Correct, it is not filmographer.  A filmographer would be someone who  wanted to list all of the films that a specific actor was in.

Reply# 21: Actually, that is an ElektroFuzz II promo culled from footage taken at ElektroFuzz I.  You can tell because Jimfoxyboy is in suit, and he was not in suit at ElektroFuzz 2.

Reply#22: It should be known that organizers have expected me to be recording an event in some way (once again everyone) if there are fursuits.  Heck, if I show up without recording equipment, people are going to ask me, "Why not?" I am even disappointed with myself if I cannot function in some archivist capacity.  I get lost otherwise.  I am used to being at furry events but not feeling like I am actually there; rather appraising everything through tunnel vision on monitors with an eye for the after-image.

I worked public events at Historic Stewart Farm.  Every time I wanted to take a picture of someone, I had to get them to sign a release form...before I took the photos.  This was in case the Farm wanted to publicize the photos are part of any sort of event advertising.  The problem with photography is that you are either waiting for shots to happen or recognizing them as they happen.  In either case, shoving a clipboard under someones nose and saying "Here, sign this" DESTROYS THE MOMENT.  It eliminates the spontaneity of the event.  But I am not working for anybody at furry events.  NOBODY pays me to do this and I do not expect them to pay me.  My motivation is to make all of you happy and give you something afterwards to remember the moment, not to make money.  The closest I came was Howloween 2010 when the Art Institute, from which I had secured material and man hours to record the event, proposed that the video could lead to a documentary.  Well, I didn't make one.  I put all the best video that I recorded on YouTube and let everyone else know about it, which is what I had wanted to do to begin with.  IT'S ALL FOR YOU!

Let me ask you this: who would you rather do the recording, one of us or one of them?  Who is them?  Them is everyone else at Revs in the surrounding lanes, who, upon seeing a giant furry animal trying to heave fluorescent-painted balls down the lanes, are going to pull out their cameras and cell phones and start snapping away whether we want them to or not.  Them is every tourist on the street who thinks we are some sort of neighborhood attraction and demands to pose with us.  Them is a world in which Orwellian surveillance is no longer science fiction and we are recorded so clandestinely to god knows who for god knows who else to see at every waking moment.  Again, I prefer to remain undocumented, but I recognize the face an enormous problem: Furries are made to be seen!  That is the entire point of a Hebdigian Spectacular Subculture, to showoff ourselves in contrast to the mainstream mundanity.  Nobody wears a fursuit, or even just a tail, and hopes to be ignored.  Anyone in proximity to a fursuit must realize this.  They are a giant technicolor bulls-eye for cameras.  But at least if the cameraman is a furry, s/he is guaranteed to be on your side.

For the record, I make available copies of my event photographs to the organizers when they ask for them, including the originals and edited versions so they can see what I have done to the initial images.  And when I do so, I give out ALL of my photographs, not just the ones which I have made public, so they can see what I made public as well as what I didn't make public.

[Univaded_Fox]

Part 2

Reply #38:  Actually, those of you who have read Inside The Mouse will know that Disney has a no photography rule when it comes to photographing any of their characters headless. Prior to the advent of digital photography, their policy was to confiscate your roll of film, remove the offending images, return the roll sans offending images and include a complementary roll of film as well.  One woman, upon realizing what she had done, actually opened up her camera and tore out the entire roll of film without being prompted.

Myself, I cannot stand to look at fursuiters sans head.  By that I mean someone wearing everything except the head; not simply being out of suit  The contrast between a body of beautiful fur and a face of eye-gouging pink skin is too much to bare.  Hence why I NEVER photograph anyone headless. Not that it isn't always easy when a fursuiter decapitates right in front of me while I am snapping away without waiting to be in a more discreet location (and yes it has happened).

As I said, I post my photographs on BC Furries because I have no FA account and people seem fine with that.  I put videos on YouTube so the world knows about us.  The world has to know that there are BC Furries; BC Furries should know that there are BC Furries.  Nobody would have come to VancouFur from as far away as Poland if they had thought we lacked a furry community.  It's advertising without being advertising.  I want to be a film editor.  I paid $30,000 to go to the Art Institute to be trained to become one.  I want to work on projects that are meaningful to me, which is not something that I have the breathing room to choose professionally, but furries are meaningful to me and I can choose.  That is why at Ai I had a reputation as "that mascot guy" because I was always trying to put anthropomrophs into my projects (note: "mascots" not "furries").  And it worked; three times my ideas became actual movies.  And guess what?  I found out that the head of the film department loves mascots.  When I brought Rennie Fox on campus in full suit, she grabbed him and hugged him.  I stood out, which is what everyone endeavoring to set themselves apart in this business does.  That is also why I have used classic rock rather than techno as a soundtrack for my videos, because it is meaningful to me and other furries don't use it.

And for the record, if other people are at the same event taking photographs or videos, I do want to see what you captured.  I can't see everything; I can't document everything.  That is why Kheetah and I are often working together, because one of us is going to miss something that the other person did not record 9and because stills and video each capture different moments and emotions).  Look at the videos I have collected in the playlist on VancouFur's YouTube channel.  You had Mountain Blue Fox recording the walk up into Save on Foods, and Nitro's video of the fursuiters invading White Spot.  I didn't get either of those.  It's all part of the history.

I go to fursuit bowling; I must be doing something right.  I go to ElektroFuzz; I must be doing something right.  I am at Community Critters events; I must be doing something right.  People upload my photographs to Fur Affinity; I must be doing something right.  I was asked to create the VancouFur promotional video; I must be doing something right.  I was allowed to roam all over VancouFur on Kheetah Cam; I must be doing something right.  Rainfurrest wants me to make their promo video; I must be doing something right.    Do you know how enriching it feels to be WANTED?  I am not saying that I am the product of an unloving family, not be any stretch of the imagination, but you people want me around.  None of you are obligated for this, but you like having me around.  I went 11 years without a friend and I still don't know why.  I never took the steps to find local furries before 2010 despite being an admitted furry for three years, because I did not feel that there was anything that I could do to contribute to the local community.  When there is an event, I have to be doing something because otherwise I feel that I will have no business being there.  If I cannot add positively to the whole, I have no purpose.  

I have a Bachelor's of History from SFU.  I understand the role in archiving material.  When I do what I do, I always keep one eye on history.  In the long run, when all of us are too old to bowl and dance and even fursuit, those images will still be with to preserve the memories.  And if God forbid something happens and the furry community ceases to exist and we wind up the 21st century equivalents of the hippie generation, then this will be PROOF that this whole wonderful thing DID HAPPEN.  We existed and we are here now.

I am not trying to hurt anyone.  I have been hurt enough and it sucks.  But things like this are really crushing.  I think that finally my presence is being accepted and welcomed, that I have a reason and a purpose, and now...I fell like I have to justify being here, again.  And for the record, I don't think that I am great at what I can do.  I think that I have a talent, but would rather have others take appraisals of my work because that is where it matters.

So, to finish off this elaborate triste, which has no doubt burned your eyes into the screen (heck I just exceeded the 20,000 max and had to split it into two parts), the next time you see me wandering around with a camera or on Kheetah Cam, if you have any concerns over what I am doing and where it is going to end up talk to me.  Believe it or not, I am shy too; the camera just works as a medium through which I can be more extroversive. Thank you for taking the time to read this far, and if there should be any responses to this essay, I can promise you that my replies will not be of an equal length.  At least I hope not.

Oh and people, please don't gang up on Ember the next time you see him.  He is a Fox too, and I have to look out for my brothers.

[H u nn Y]

Reply #4: Zenia

Zenia isn't from the mainland, she's actually from the Island. But she does have pictures on her profile and on her FA account. And to be honest, she's very pretty. :3 And I love her tattoo!! :D :hug:

[KodaOtter]

Part 1

Here Here. you know I could not have said that better. Thank you my friend

[zenia]

Zenia isn't from the mainland, she's actually from the Island. But she does have pictures on her profile and on her FA account. And to be honest, she's very pretty. :3 And I love her tattoo!! :D :hug:

Aw, thanks Hunny! I suppose I should say that I usually don't mind pictures from my bust up. Especially if they look nice. I just don't like the rest of my body in pictures. hehe

[H u nn Y]

Aw, thanks Hunny! I suppose I should say that I usually don't mind pictures from my bust up. Especially if they look nice. I just don't like the rest of my body in pictures. hehe

Ahh, totally understandable!^w^ Infact I feel the exact same way about that, tehe x3

[Drake Wingfire]

Ahh, totally understandable!^w^ Infact I feel the exact same way about that, tehe x3

oh god and to think when I get my fursuit its gonna be pretty close fitting so im gonna be bearing a lot of my figure ^^;

[squashNstretch]

...

It sounds to me like you are doing it well. :)

[Kitten]

Univaded please don't stop filming or photographing!!  You are quite good at what you do and you capture the souls of the local furries very well!!

[Torwin]

I don't mind being recorded, i've seen the pics but I really want to see some vids, lol

Someone's been recording me, I just don't know who it was, I just want a chance to see the footage

[Fazar]

I'm a shameless attention whore, so any pictures/video taken of me is a plus.  I did however think it was odd that a lot of stuff was taken but never posted (due to like one person or two saying they were not comfortable with it, and then the whole footage was thrown out or something).  Heard something like that about Electrofuzz one.

[Tef]

Univaded please don't stop filming or photographing!!  You are quite good at what you do and you capture the souls of the local furries very well!!

I have to second this.  :-3

[Akonite]

I dont want to delve into this too much, but as the Organizer of both ElektroFuzz events, I have NEVER received a complaint about a photographer or filmer at either of the events. I have heard stories of specific people having issues with each other, but when it's that isolated, in good conscience, i must to chalk it up to personal differences.

I am always open to re-assessing our organizations filming policy, but to date have never been given a reason to do so or have had enough complaints put forth to make it a priority.

If people ever do have those concerns they are always welcome to contact me.

In the age of technology we live in, however, I do believe you must also understand that the camera on my iphone is at par with many "professional looking" Cameras from 5 years ago. At any event I have been at, furry or not, people are filming and taking pictures everywhere. Its hard to avoid without an all out ban on electronics.

In the aspect of filming for professional purposes, it would be intelligent to have rules and procedures in place. However, I have never been approached by a film crew who wanted to film an event for any professional or media reason.

If you are uncomfortable being filmed, let the filmer know. If you are uncomfortable doing so, bring your concern to an organizer. If the filmer continues, then we will deal with the issue. But, again, to date I have never seen any issues beyond personal differences.

[Kittara]

Someone's been recording me, I just don't know who it was, I just want a chance to see the footage

I agree with this.. Someone at the Vancoufur convention got me on film and some one else (a big african guy) got some great pictures of my boyfriend actually HAVING FUN! :P Both were at the dance and they were up on the projection screen while we were dancing so I know they're out there. Plus, he actually asked if he could take the pictures BEFORE he took them, which my bf really appreciated. If anyone can track down the pics, that would be awesome! I really want to put them in a scrapbook. :D

[Kitten]

I agree with this.. Someone at the Vancoufur convention got me on film and some one else (a big african guy) got some great pictures of my boyfriend actually HAVING FUN! :P Both were at the dance and they were up on the projection screen while we were dancing so I know they're out there. Plus, he actually asked if he could take the pictures BEFORE he took them, which my bf really appreciated. If anyone can track down the pics, that would be awesome! I really want to put them in a scrapbook. :D

If your photos ended up on a screen by some "black guys", that a company that did that for VancouFur pro-bono. If you want those photos then you'll have to ask Aphinity for their website/contact. Aphinity can be reached on FA under Aphinity(if you try and get him on the forums.....he does not check back very often.....)