Creepy furry "filmographers"

[Sairys]

may I suggest we ask other events like RF etc etc or even ask another portion of the furdom say from cali what they did for this situation. take a page from their books and apply it to our events.

[FurryJackman]

I have a high expectation that they will all say "No Media." That is most likely what will have to happen here. Big media outlets will have to get shut out instead of being allowed to have an open media policy. We just can't risk allowing another (for example) tabloid to do what was done to lay damage on the fandom.

Frankly, I was honestly not expecting any media to show up at VancouFur, so the local stations caught me by surprise.

There's the other side of the coin though. People like Kheetah and BBF have production quality cameras, but at the same time aren't part of the media. Does that make them spies? No. And that's like judging a book by it's cover.

[Silvermink]

I have a high expectation that they will all say "No Media." That is most likely what will have to happen here. Big media outlets will have to get shut out instead of being allowed to have an open media policy. We just can't risk allowing another (for example) tabloid to do what was done to lay damage on the fandom.

Ever thought you might be taking this a little too seriously?

[Apoxon]

Ever thought you might be taking this a little too seriously?

there's another thread specifically pertaining to this issue, Silvermink. let's not get off-topic here.

Jackman; i believe the general concern is for furries -within- the BC Furs who use high quality video recorders (or any video recording, for that matter) or high quality cameras, and do not post their results. BBF, Keetah and Univaded are wonderful examples of furries who DO NOT hoard their footage; the make it public it as soon as time allows. the current concern is certain furries who take equal amounts of footage and DO NOT post it, (or perhaps post -very- little, and in obscure locations without notifying the subjects). I'll add to this my own concern regarding certain furs filming individuals who have explicitly asked them -not- to.

i think Sairys is on to something; why not ask RF (or one of the locals who volunteers there (*cough*AphinityTrappaTorwinLoialCOUNTLESSOTHERS*cough*) what their policy is on high quality cameras/recording devices. this seems like perfectly sound logic to me. they are a successful convention, and may have some good ideas for us. but we should keep in mind; the majority of our events are -not- conventions, meaning that different rules may apply. for instance, cons have a very strict policy regarding collars and leashes; the wearer must carry their own leash, whereas at events like bowling, we know this is not the case. at the very least, asking RF will give some ideas for possible solutions.

[Mikomi]

there's another thread specifically pertaining to this issue, Silvermink. let's not get off-topic here.

Jackman; i believe the general concern is for furries -within- the BC Furs who use high quality video recorders (or any video recording, for that matter) or high quality cameras, and do not post their results. BBF, Keetah and Univaded are wonderful examples of furries who DO NOT hoard their footage; the make it public it as soon as time allows. the current concern is certain furries who take equal amounts of footage and DO NOT post it, (or perhaps post -very- little, and in obscure locations without notifying the subjects). I'll add to this my own concern regarding certain furs filming individuals who have explicitly asked them -not- to.

i think Sairys is on to something; why not ask RF (or one of the locals who volunteers there (*cough*AphinityTrappaTorwinLoialCOUNTLESSOTHERS*cough*) what their policy is on high quality cameras/recording devices. this seems like perfectly sound logic to me. they are a successful convention, and may have some good ideas for us. but we should keep in mind; the majority of our events are -not- conventions, meaning that different rules may apply. for instance, cons have a very strict policy regarding collars and leashes; the wearer must carry their own leash, whereas at events like bowling, we know this is not the case. at the very least, asking RF will give some ideas for possible solutions.

That concern is even more silly though. People could be using the footage for learning purposes, so they can get better at their art form, and learn how to use their camera better?  Or maybe they just have full time jobs and havent had time to think about the images they have captured. This just seems like a paranoid delusion that someone is out to get us.

Edit: Also its Photographer or Videographer. Not Filmographer, Filmography is making comprehensive lists of movies into specific categories. >.>

[Apoxon]

That concern is even more silly though. People could be using the footage for learning purposes, so they can get better at their art form, and learn how to use their camera better?  Or maybe they just have full time jobs and havent had time to think about the images they have captured. This just seems like a paranoid delusion that someone is out to get us.

Edit: Also its Photographer or Videographer. Not Filmographer, Filmography is making comprehensive lists of movies into specific categories. >.>

does that mean it's okay to film someone without their permission, if they're only practicing? I'm sorry, but i don't feel it does; you need to ask for permission for that sort of thing.

If you're referring to my own concern of being filmed after i've asked -repeatedly- that the photographer/videographer STOP filming me, then i'm apt to question your views on personal boundaries.

[mediar]

I haven't been able to find any footage of Howloween or Electrofuzz 2, despite there being 5 or 6 high end camera's being around while I ran the lighting equipment. I've been specifically hunting for footage of my setup so I can see how it looks from an outside perspective and make improvements to the rigging and effects usage. My fog machine use is a perfect example, I can't really see how much is in the air when I have all the lights overhead and camera's are pretty good at catching that sort of thing, lol

Don't forget these guys have jobs, or are in school, and the filming that is done at events is something they do in their spare time.


E Fuzz 2(with minimal searching effort):

http://youtu.be/jmU1m2RiS_E



The issues I have with some of the folks filming is that they get right in my face or get in the way of the suiters as they are not paying attention to the surrounding area or they land themselves in the shot of another video-grapher. I am not going to name names, but if you want to know if I am talking about you, you're welcome to PM me here.

[squashNstretch]

Why do we let this go on? What's the point of having these people at our events?

What I propose is that event organizers require people taking film/pictures to be vetted by the organizers. Anyone else filming can GTFO. The people vetted should be required to release their final footage in some sort of timely manner.

I agree, but a step farther. I think these events should be strictly "No photography". I'm part of another community and if a flash ever were to go off around one of us I can almost assure that would be a smashed camera. Photographers should be allowed to photograph only if they have permission from everyone in the shot. If they are to be published, they also need to have release forms signed. At a private function like this the attendee's have a right to expect a certain level of privacy. If I were a furry/suiter/whatever I would not want my professional image/identity marred by what I do in my private life. And that is the core of why I think many people will not attend these functions or meetups - There needs to be a high level of discretion.

[Whitefoot]

I agree, but a step farther. I think these events should be strictly "No photography". I'm part of another community and if a flash ever were to go off around one of us I can almost assure that would be a smashed camera. Photographers should be allowed to photograph only if they have permission from everyone in the shot. If they are to be published, they also need to have release forms signed. At a private function like this the attendee's have a right to expect a certain level of privacy. If I were a furry/suiter/whatever I would not want my professional image/identity marred by what I do in my private life. And that is the core of why I think many people will not attend these functions or meetups - There needs to be a high level of discretion.

Unfortunately, fursuiters seem to have a really hard time being discreet. :P

[squashNstretch]

Unfortunately, fursuiters seem to have a really hard time being discreet. :P

Haha, well the funny thing with that is that fursuiters get full anonymity. I'd feel safer showing up to a furcon in a full suit than I would in street clothes - No joke.

[Mikomi]

does that mean it's okay to film someone without their permission, if they're only practicing? I'm sorry, but i don't feel it does; you need to ask for permission for that sort of thing.

If you're referring to my own concern of being filmed after i've asked -repeatedly- that the photographer/videographer STOP filming me, then i'm apt to question your views on personal boundaries.

Well legally in canada, filming or photographing is allowed in public with out consent. (See "Photographers rights"). If its somewhere like a mall or bowling ally for example thats considered public, the owner of the property can remove you if they please for taking photos or any reason for that matter. But it is still legal.
Release forms and permission only need to be filled if it is a private location. Like a house or a hotel room. Ect... and if you are using the photo for publishing.

With that said, in most cases I would stop if i was asked nicely to stop. As most photographers would, But how most people approach the situation is by yelling and being an idiot. If someone does that i would cite them my rights then kindly carry on. Also usually the people getting upset about being photographed, dont realize there not actually in the shot. so maybe the people you're complaining about didn't stop cause they where not filming you.

I mean the only legitimate reason to get this upset about someone filming you in a public space is if your in witness protection.

And to everyone saying i would smash their camera ect, Assuming again this is a public place. you are liable to be charged with assault.

[zenia]

It might be legal, but it doesn't mean it is decent. If someone took, and published, pictures of me without my consent... I'd never come back to the place/event that it happened at.

[Mikomi]

It might be legal, but it doesn't mean it is decent. If someone took, and published, pictures of me without my consent... I'd never come back to the place/event that it happened at.

Well like I said most people if you ask nicely and politely, will stop photographing you. If they where in the first place. Also you and everyone else has probably recorded in someway by something like a camera phone or security cameras. And possibly published or uploaded from there. I would be more concerned about the people with out professional equipment.

Also it depends on what you mean by published, usually that would mean published to a magazine or newspaper, but thats probably unlikely in most cases.
However i think the OP was complaining about Not uploading or publishing the photos, but on that argument as well whom ever took the footage is probaby just busy with having a life to even touching what they have recorded.

Edit: Also as its been said already, but what about the people that just want to record an event for there own personal memory.
I also think people may have personal reasons to not be filmed or photographed, some may be legitimate, some are downright paranoid. But you kind of have to throw out the expectation of privacy once you enter the public world.

[Safire]

everything should work out fine but idk about me bc im so confused about shit right now

[Silvermink]

I agree, but a step farther. I think these events should be strictly "No photography". I'm part of another community and if a flash ever were to go off around one of us I can almost assure that would be a smashed camera. Photographers should be allowed to photograph only if they have permission from everyone in the shot. If they are to be published, they also need to have release forms signed. At a private function like this the attendee's have a right to expect a certain level of privacy. If I were a furry/suiter/whatever I would not want my professional image/identity marred by what I do in my private life. And that is the core of why I think many people will not attend these functions or meetups - There needs to be a high level of discretion.

I don't think you're going to see any convention start requiring people to get permission and releases from anyone in any picture they took for any purpose. A lot of people take pictures to remember and share the event, and my opinion (and, I'd be willing to bet, the prevailing opinion) is that that should be allowed. I also think most of the people who don't attend are just shy in general and aren't specifically freaked out by the possibility of ending up in pictures, but of course I'm speculating as much as you are.

And, as Mikomi says, it's perfectly legal. If you really want to guarantee you don't end up in anyone's pictures, your only real remedy is not to come. Even rules wouldn't stop everyone.