Furry representation in pride parade

[Apoxon]

Wolfshade,

you're right, there are other parades we can represent ourselves at, and on that note, i completely agree. i think it would be awesome to show up in suit promoting VancouFur or the BC Furries in general, at parades with a family theme. Canada Day, the Christmas Parade, and other such events. but WITH THE COMMUNITY'S APPROVAL. that is, the majority of furs saying 'that would be fine' or 'i don't mind'.

no one here is saying 'don't show up at the pride parade at all in suit or as a furry!' we're saying 'don't represent us as a group there.' this was the same issue with the last thread that -was- locked.

you need to realize that those defending the negative argument are not the ones who brought up either of the posts on this subject, and are simply stating their opinions on the matter.

the media hasn't screwed us over 'once'. i can count five incidents off the top of my head where the media got their hands on furry and ripped into us. i realize that a major reason some furries want to represent themselves is this exact issue; we want to clear our name. however, you need to choose the correct venues to do this.

has anyone considered how much of a benefit things like Bowling, Skating and Helping Paws are to us? suiters. in public. having fun in a family setting. i believe these events are far more helpful in clearing the furry name than showing up at a parade and handing out leaflets, looking like we're trying to sell something or convert people to some very odd looking religion.

[Akonite]

*sigh*

Im not sure when people giving their personal opinions became arguing. Just because different people have different opinions doesnt mean they are arguing. I see no one here making fun of another's post.

I think its great that this has not been locked. I think it was important to be able to have my personal opinion heard, and not muted by a locked thread. You shouldn't ask for a thread to be locked just because the outcome is slipping away from the direction you personally were hoping for. As was said above, keep it your personal opinion - meaning if someone disagrees with you they are not being "negative" only expressing the opposite opinion as you and is a fairly basic right.

As for the Canada Day parade, I would be WAY more inclined to see furry represented in a forum like that. I think that kind of venue is MUCH different than pride. IN almost every way actually. You would probably have a much more balanced outcome if that was the parade that you were talking about, but its not. However, This thread is specifically about pride, so i dont think its fair to throw a Canada Day Parade argument in here. (Though it may be interesting to see a Canada Day thread to note the changes in opinions.)

SO as Wolfshade is saying himself, lets keep this going in the civil manner it already is, and keep it to facts and personal opinions and keep the bickering to ourselves (Including you Wolfshade). We all have different opinions, and i believe this is one of the most interesting and civil conversations I have yet seen on this forum. Im impressed that there can be so many different ways of looking at it and for the most part people are being very mature. Good on us!  :hug: :thumbs:
On a side note,

[Akonite]

Has anyone considered how much of a benefit things like Bowling, Skating and Helping Paws are to us? suiters. in public. having fun in a family setting. i believe these events are far more helpful in clearing the furry name than showing up at a parade and handing out leaflets, looking like we're trying to sell something or convert people to some very odd looking religion.

That is an amazing point Apoxon. People like Tai and Zen who are making an effort to have public events in these kind of settings is exactly the spirit of spreading the community we are talking about in this thread. Good on both of them and others who are doing similar things like it.

[Akonite]

I am posting this, not for this year (to late), but just to get an overall idea of general opinion.

I thought i'd bring the very first line of the thread up again to quell some of the concern. Note that it is asking us all for our opinions. Even if your opinion has been stated by someone else, id love to hear it again from you.

Everyone's voice is important, even if its in unison with someone else's.

Again, this is an extremely interesting thread. I hope to hear more civil opinions, from both sides of the discussion!  :) :hug:

[Unition]

I've been keeping an eye this thread, and I have not felt the need to lock it at this point.

You may have noticed I have a mostly hands-off approach to moderation (mostly...) - when I get some free time I may do a writeup on my personal philosophy surrounding moderation, of course not necessarily shared by any fellow moderators, whose own moderation actions I fully support.

[Sairys]

Small events have a larger impact than huge events. You also forgot about the community critters fursuit group that attends many events from parades to open house events.omg so hard to post via cell.

[Akonite]

I may do a writeup on my personal philosophy surrounding moderation, of course not necessarily shared by any fellow moderators, whose own moderation actions I fully support.

LMFAO. Say that 3x fast.

[Kitten]

Before we bring the helping paws name farther into this thread or any thread, they are NOT associated with furry at all.

Helping Paws is a NON FURRY group. They try VERY HARD to not be associated with furry.

(I am not a part of helping paws so, if a helping paws member wants to clarify more they can)

[Apoxon]

beg pardon to Helping Paws. i stand corrected.

Community Critters, then?

[Sikhoten_Tiger]

BUT as a sub note: what is your issue people? keep it to one word, Media issue, Social relations, misinterpation of you being (and only you, not using the term BEINGS as in FURS in general)

Accurate representation.

Would you consider the furry fandom to be well represented by the following statement: "A bunch of gay fetishists into animals"

If you do then representing furries in an official manner at gay pride doesn't make sense, particularly if you have a sensationalist media that can and will pidgeonhole the fandom into the most dramatic definition possible. Given that most of the people here seem to agree that representing the fandom at gay pride would end up misrepresenting what the fandom is you have to respect that and stop trying to insult people for having a different opinion from your own.

If we're going to try to represent the fandom in any official manner we're going to have to take public perception and context in mind, I know that some may wish to rebel and ignore whatever the general public thinks but there's no point trying to represent the fandom if we're not going to address public perception. The vote speaks pretty clearly to the community's thinking that Gay Pride isn't the right context to start showing ourselves to the public at large, this doesn't mean you can't attend just that you shouldn't be saying you're representing the whole community many of which won't be there.

Also thanks Unition for monitoring this thread and keeping things open as there's pretty clearly a fair bit of laundry to air over this.

[RainRat]

This would be getting too off topic if we started discussing the nuances of Helping Paws or Community Critters here.

If you would like to see the original thread for Community Critters, it is: http://www.bcfurries.com/forum/index.php?topic=243.0

[Acco]

And yeah, I'd have no problems with Canada Day. But that's not the issue at hand.

[mediar]

Go to Pride, or Canada day, or wherever. Have fun. But don't claim to speak for an entire community.

Well said. I am all for a group entry in the Canada Parade, what does everyone else say?

/edit/
Can we get a topic split for a Canada Day entry thread?

[RainRat]

Yeah, just start a new thread for the Canada Day idea. There wouldn't be a good introduction to the new thread if I just split out a couple posts from here.

[Pat The Fox]

I think my thoughts on this matter are best summed up by a Marshall McLuhan: "The medium is the message."

To break the quote down, that means that no matter what the context of your message is, the medium in which it is presented is part of the message and will shape its perception.

As many have mentioned, promoting 'furry' at an event will cause the promotion of furry to carry all the stigma and traits of the events it is promoted at. There really is no way around this. Also, this doesn't go only for aforementioned event but any event in general.

No matter where we show up, we do have to consider the environment around the event and what messages, both obvious and subliminal, are going to be attached on to our message by sending it through that channel.

I personally do not think a parade is the best way to 'spread' furry. In fact, I do not think furry needs to be 'spread' but rather sought and found. We should be accessible, but not shoving our image in to the limelight or trying to 'convert' people. Which also brings up a curious question of why we see ourselves as needing to 'spread' furry? Do we feel something is missing? Is there a belief we lack in numbers? Do we feel there is something beneficial of trying to push the notion of furry out in to the populace?  I am curious to hear the responses to this, but that would be a topic for another thread.

A parade is fine to attend as a group if we want to present ourselves as a form of entertainment; that we are out there to please other people. A parade isn't really a forum for recruitment and shouldn't be treated as such. Yes, recruitment can occur from people seeing us at the event but you will have to realize those people will have this notion that we are out there to be entertainers and are to be treated like such. Currently, I feel being seen as a form of entertainment is part of the problem since the media uses 'furry' as an exploitable form of entertainment by focusing on the negative aspects.

Other groups do attend parades that aren't a form of entertainment, but they either already have an established image or present themselves in a way that is not entertaining i.e. a banner on a vehicle or just a line of people marching along, not doing much. Going out in suits and dressing up will hold the stigma of the other performers that are out there just to please people, a thing to be consumed rather than perhaps an alternative lifestyle.

I think panels at conventions and, as previously mentioned, just going out and having fun is a much more productive way of handling our promotion if we must promote. People seeing us being us, enjoying ourselves, being generally a good natured in our actions, and looking like a fun loving group is a much more powerful message sent along the medium of a person's own perception. It's a much more raw representation of who we are and, as always, actions speak louder than words.

Everyone is certainly free to go to these events if they are out their being an individual, or representing their own small pocket in consensus. Just, as mentioned, don't claim to represent anything beyond the scope of yourself and those who chose to attend if the general consensus is people do not wish an association.

This is my opinion on the matter.