Vegetarian discussion (Split from May Dinnermeet)

[Kithop]

Okay, so it's more cross-contamination issues from a shared grill/deep-fryer. :/

[IceKarma]

My memory isn't exactly the best, but I seem to recall Star mentioning a few times that they used beef tallow or something equally un-vegetarian-friendly in their deep-fryer.

[Rukario]

Are you confusing Swiss Chalet (rotisserie chicken) with McDonalds (everything fried in beef tallow) perhaps?

[Carthage]

Okay, so it's more cross-contamination issues from a shared grill/deep-fryer. :/

Cross-contamination of food types (meat, veg, seafood) happens in even some of the best restaurants in the world. The only way to truly guarentee meat/veg/fish-free food is to buy and cook it yourself. Vegetarian and vegan restaurants buy their food from the same suppliers that major meat-serving restaurants do. When some of the supplier ship both meat and veg in the same truck, cross-contamination can occur before the kitchen even factors in to the equation.

Don't get me wrong, I think vegetarians are probably mocked more than they should be (though some bring it on themselves) but this is the reality of food in a global marketplace.

[Unition]

I read somewhere that if you eat any grain products (bread, cereal, etc.) it is literally impossible to not have bits of bugs in your food, if that counts as "meat".

Here we go, the U.S. FDA - I'm sure the Canadian one is similar:

http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/GuidanceDocuments/Sanitation/ucm056174.htm

CORNMEAL
Insects
(AOAC 981.19) Average of 1 or more whole insects (or equivalent) per 50 grams
 Insect filth
(AOAC 981.19) Average of 25 or more insect fragments per 25 grams
 Rodent filth
(AOAC 981.19) Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 25 grams
OR
Average of 1 or more rodent excreta fragment per 50 grams

DEFECT SOURCE:  Insects and insect fragments - preharvest and/or post harvest and/or processing insect infestation, Rodent hair and excreta fragments - post harvest and/or processing contamination with animal hair or excreta
SIGNIFICANCE: Aesthetic

WHEAT FLOUR
Insect filth
(AOAC 972.32) Average of 75 or more insect fragments per 50 grams
 Rodent filth
(AOAC 972.32) Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 50 grams

DEFECT SOURCE:  Insect fragments - preharvest and/or post harvest and/or processing insect infestation, Rodent hair - post harvest and/or processing contamination with animal hair or excreta.
SIGNIFICANCE:  Aesthetic

Mmm, cornflakes...

[Carthage]

Mmm, cornflakes...

New Kellogg's Corn Flakes contain 60% of your daily recommended intake of rodent excreta.
:p

[Star Wonder]

When I worked in foods class, on average there are 7 insect legs in every single bar of chocolate consumed (from large companies that mass produce, i.e nestle). Because chocolate is made in large open vats. I remember Gritz telling me when he worked at the chocolate factory that the chocolate on top gets hard, and sometimes maggots get in. And in grade six a girl was eating a two-piece milky way bar and it had THREE maggots crawling around inside. I've been paranoid of chocolate ever since, then Gritz's story made it worse. I rarely eat chocolate at all.

[Soda]

Chocolate!

[Ember]

If you are truly afraid of this, as I once was (AS A KID) , I recommend just... eating some bugs :p

Not like off the ground, but chocolate covered ants, crickets... basically anything from a place like this: http://www.hotlix.com/insect_candy/insect_candy.html

If you feel you have a phobia that gets in the way of something you want to do (eat chocolate) confronting it in this manner will make it not such a big deal.

BTW most bugs are very high in protein.

[Marfles]

BTW most bugs are very high in protein.

I like protein

[Silvermink]

Many places offer at least a few vegetarian options amongst the standard meat-containing fare, which is cool - we should at least be holding ourselves to that group as to be as inclusive as possible, just as we would expect to be going to places that can accommodate someone with a food allergy (e.g. my dad has celiac and is thus allergic to the gluten found in wheat, oats, and so forth, so he has to be very careful when eating out).  I think it's unfair to consider restaurants that are completely, 100% carnivorous in their offerings as candidates for dinner meets just as it would be unfair to go somewhere that serves/cooks everything slathered in peanut butter if we had a few furs that were deathly allergic to peanuts.

Honestly, as someone who has digestive issues that may turn out to be celiac (and god, I hope it's not that, because dietary restrictions would really be anathema to my foodie nature) - if the dinnermeet were held somewhere that didn't have anything I could eat, I'd just skip it that month. It's not the end of the world. Of course, maybe my point of view on that is a little skewed given I don't generally come to dinnermeets anyway, but I don't think people will die if they miss one now and then, you know?

As for vegetarian substitutes being indistinguishable from meat, I have yet to find that to be the case. I'm often told that such and such is indistinguishable from meat, but no. It isn't, sorry. Personally, if I'm going to eat vegetarian food, I'd rather find ways to use vegetables that are true to their vegetably nature rather than have them try to masquerade as something else, but that's just me. Oh, and I love tofu when it's used well. Nom.

I think there's backlash on both sides because there are elements in either that will try to push the other to their way of thinking - I think meat-eaters perceive vegetarians as quietly lording their supposed moral superiority over the rest of us, which doesn't sit well, and vegetarians perceive meat-eaters as thinking of their choice as somehow wrong or unnatural or "wussy", which doesn't sit well either. As ever, I don't think it's fair to paint everyone on either side with the same brush. It's a debate with plenty of straw-manning going on.

[Star Wonder]

Many places offer at least a few vegetarian options amongst the standard meat-containing fare, which is cool - we should at least be holding ourselves to that group as to be as inclusive as possible, just as we would expect to be going to places that can accommodate someone with a food allergy (e.g. my dad has celiac and is thus allergic to the gluten found in wheat, oats, and so forth, so he has to be very careful when eating out).  I think it's unfair to consider restaurants that are completely, 100% carnivorous in their offerings as candidates for dinner meets just as it would be unfair to go somewhere that serves/cooks everything slathered in peanut butter if we had a few furs that were deathly allergic to peanuts.

Honestly, as someone who has digestive issues that may turn out to be celiac (and god, I hope it's not that, because dietary restrictions would really be anathema to my foodie nature) - if the dinnermeet were held somewhere that didn't have anything I could eat, I'd just skip it that month. It's not the end of the world. Of course, maybe my point of view on that is a little skewed given I don't generally come to dinnermeets anyway, but I don't think people will die if they miss one now and then, you know?

As for vegetarian substitutes being indistinguishable from meat, I have yet to find that to be the case. I'm often told that such and such is indistinguishable from meat, but no. It isn't, sorry. Personally, if I'm going to eat vegetarian food, I'd rather find ways to use vegetables that are true to their vegetably nature rather than have them try to masquerade as something else, but that's just me. Oh, and I love tofu when it's used well. Nom.

I think there's backlash on both sides because there are elements in either that will try to push the other to their way of thinking - I think meat-eaters perceive vegetarians as quietly lording their supposed moral superiority over the rest of us, which doesn't sit well, and vegetarians perceive meat-eaters as thinking of their choice as somehow wrong or unnatural or "wussy", which doesn't sit well either. As ever, I don't think it's fair to paint everyone on either side with the same brush. It's a debate with plenty of straw-manning going on.

You need to try Kithop's and my own vegetarian tofu stuff. Everyone we've ever fed it to said they couldn't tell the difference.

[Silvermink]

You need to try Kithop's and my own vegetarian tofu stuff. Everyone we've ever fed it to said they couldn't tell the difference.

Sure - are we talking a proper double-blinded trial here? ;) How do you texturize it to have the same consistency (no, not being a smartass; I am genuinely curious)?

How far has the "technology" come in terms of imitating different types of meats? It's been a little while since I've tried anything purporting to be exactly like meat, but not all that long.

[H u nn Y]

You need to try Kithop's and my own vegetarian tofu stuff. Everyone we've ever fed it to said they couldn't tell the difference.

Oooh, I wanns to try daaat~ :)

[velvetkytten]

the foundation's food is epic awesome ok :P good prices and its so popular that if you don't get there early you'll be standing outside for a while to get in...

Carthage I'm a bit shocked at you for saying you haven't seen a  case of meat allergy since you lived with me for a year and know how pork fucks me over severely. A

nd just to add to this discussion about how hard it can be for people with different eating habits.. try finding a restaurant that has no onions in anything... its almost impossible. Having crohn's disease makes it very hard to eat out. Oddly enough I had to stop going to my vegetarian dinner meets because they were always going to places with spicy food.

But to be really honest... I don't go to the dinner meets any more because of all this stupid drama.
Can't we just go out and have a good time without anyone taking something as insulting and blowing it up ?

I mean one of the reasons we have dinner meets is to HAVE FUN and enjoy our community... instead it's like going back to high school with all the clicks whispering about someone at the other end of the table.   

no one can force anyone to eat things they don't like... so I hope suggestions are left as that... SUGGESTIONS..

I just thought of something that might help this situation ... maybe since the weather is getting nicer... we can set something up like a group picnic.. where people bring whatever they want .. from home or restuarnts and we can all have something we like to eat while spending time .. FUN