Baby/cub furs and Pup-Play Furs. the same?

[MurphyErasmus]

How come everyone wants to do pup-play and not something cool like otter-play?

Who wants to eat fish and fight crocodiles with me?

Can I be an honorary otter if I fight fish and eat crocodiles?

[Unition]

I don't want to drift too far off the original topic, but if you want to see some classic furry stuff here's a book of otter rules from the early days of the internet.
Sadly the version I have is cut off, but maybe I'll find a complete version someday :)

                  -----------------------------------------
                  THIS IS A COPY OF THE BOOK OF OTTER RULES
                  -----------------------------------------
0)  Stop whatever you're doing and pay attention to the otter. :3 -- Warwick
1) All rules set forth here are subject to the innate chaos inherent
   in otters:  i.e. we get to ignore them anytime we want.
   --Noctor.
2) If it's not fun, an otter won't do it.--Noctor
3) The likelihood of an otter taking an action is in direct
   proportion to the general chaos it adds to the universe.--Noctor.
4) An otter has to lick at least one person's nose a day: it makes
   them crosseyed which always adds chaos to the system.--Flint
5) An otter can not, at any given moment, be expected to make
   sense.--Kuurn
6) A thing is either food, water, another otter, or a rock.--Warwick
7) If nobody's watching, you'll be able to get away with it.
   --Warwick
8.) If someone /is/ watching, you're more than cute enough to get
   away with it an yway.--Warwick.
9) What rules? And where's the food? I was told food was
   involved!--Gryn
10) It is to be a given if you tell an otter _not_ to do something,
    and that something has even a remote possiblity of being fun,
    the otter will almost certainly do it. --Jericho
11) An otter at rest just hasn't decided what to do yet.---Waveflyer
12) One otter cannot occupy two places at once....but he/she will
    certainly try  to. --Waveflyer
13) If you can't nuzzle it, play with it, or bite it... pee on it. --
    Gilead
14) Like, an otter is the most at home in, y'know, water! So, like
    otters are th e greatest natural surfers! Fer sure! Use that
    tail, man, and go fer the curl! -- Dean_Wilson (Noctor's Note:
    Dean's autograph follows here.. it's not often we get gold
    meadalist's signing something like this..)
16) Otters don't count so well.  -- Smoke
17) As soon as they think they know the rules, change them.  -- Smoke
18) If you can't win with reason, or force, baffle them with playfulness.
    Any otter can confuse any non-otter that way. -- Sandy.Claws
19) Otter's Law: Anything that _can_ be played with, _will_ be played with.
    -- Sandy.Claws.
20) This book is one thing, my teeth are another; Steal not the one
    for fear of the otter.---Tarka
21) Otters became aware of their destiny: to belong to the playful
    minority as oposed to the serious majority.---Tarka
22) When an otter begins to think first and act latter. Worry.---Tarka
23) It is a law of otter life, as certain as gravity: They love people
    and play with things.---Tarka
24) We are really Otters from outer space. We can tell. By the way furs
    look at us with wide-eyed wonder, that such a creature could exist,
    let alone talk to them.---Tarka
25) An otter a day keeps your problems away.---Tarka
26) The true innocence of an otter is inversely proportional to how
    innocent he/she looks.  ---Terminotaur
27) In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom.  For an
    Otter this should be no difficult task -- Alpha_X-ray misquoting Richard
    Bach.
28) An Otter lives for four things: 1 - To have as much fun as possible. 2 -
    To baffle as many as possible. 3 - To try to lick the nose of everyone at
    least once. -- Alpha_X-ray.
29) Definition of the species in one word?  Otterrific! --- Diesel
30) Too much caffeine is not necessarily a bad thing. -- BrightEyes
31) There is no such thing as too much caffeine. -- BrightEyes
32) Otters obey mustelid physics. This involves a complete disregard for up
    and down. - MelSkunk
33) An otter will remain in motion unless a body to wrap around intervenes. -
    MelSkunk
34) An otter's force of persuasion equals flexibility x sneakiness x cuteness
    / hunger. Or sometimes x hunger. It depends. - MelSkunk
35) No energy is destroyed in an otter, but used to its fullest potential to a
    power of hyperness x otter_cuteness squared / the speed of salmon.
    - MelSkunk
36) There are only two kinds of otters.  Live playful ones and dead s

[Unition]

Can I be an honorary otter if I fight fish and eat crocodiles?

Wow...I think you can be honorary anything if you can eat crocodiles!

[Acco]

I'm a bit creeped out at the babyfurs that enjoy the sexual stuff with normal aged furs... BUT - It's not hurting anybody. Might be unhealthy, but if they're not hurting another and it's all purely consensual... I don't give a rats ass if you're into coprophagia at that point.

It goes over the line as soon as an underage child is actually hurt. Anything else... consenting adults. I don't need to know the details. I don't want to know the details. I don't barge into your bedroom, you don't barge into mine. /shrug

[squashNstretch]

I stumbled upon this thread after a good long break from lurking.

...I strongly earge people to ask questions about something before they pass judgment and/or make public posts on the subject...We as furries really should be more open to such activities, and if its not your cup of tea, don't be an ass about it.

The attitude -- a widely held and incorrect attitude -- that "baby fur is bad because it is about children, but pet play is fine because it is pretend", needs to be changed. I highly encourage people to stop superficially jumping all over this thread just because "baby fur" was mentioned, and try to be more accepting of the fetishes and personal pleasures of all consenting adults. After all, jumping all over a consenting adult for misinformation is the same reason people hate furries without really understanding them.

I wish I could give you both a huge hug right now... What a few other posters wrote here really made me sad. Equating abdl's with pedophiles is completely inaccurate. ab/dls do not fantasize about having sex with children. This is a fact in both the AB and DL distinctions within that community. Take a look at any of the major abdl sites and you will see that any mention of real kids gets you shunned by the community and banned by most any place worth visiting. It's a sad thing... I remember when hating of furries was the big thing. "Yiff in hell furfag" and all that nonsense. I've never been a furry, but have always supported what you all do and fought against that stupid meme of hating on furries. abdl's were too off the radar to invoke the wrath you guys used to get. To me furries have always seemed like a fun bunch of nerdy people. Like me.

I just cannot handle the idea of children, toddlers, or infants being attractive, because that is starting to lean towards pedophilia.

That isn't leaning towards pedophilia. It IS pedophilia. Pedophiles are to abdl's what Mr. Hands is to the furry community; NOT RELATED. I don't think any of you go around fantasizing about having sex with the neighbors dog, but that's the exact same kind of comparison a few people in this thread seem to make with abdl's and pedophiles and it fucking hurts.

I have met a few furries and babyfurs over the years. The straight-up furries all seemed to be very accepting of babyfurs from what I heard. Do they have to approve of it? Of course not. Does it sting when someone insinuates and hints that you and everyone in your community is probably a baby-rapist in wait? Absolutely. I have found the BCfurries board to be the most anti-babyfur furry community I lurk. It's a shame because I would hope this would be the best place for me to explore my "fur curiosity" and see what is going on. I kinda miss London for that. Anyway, Im not expecting to change any minds here. After all I am posting here as a guest in your house. Still, I felt I had to say something.

Thanks for reading my disjointed ramblings. I still think you guys are cool, I just don't like going to bed on a low note.

[Ember]

A lot of furries feel that babyfurs are piggy backing on the furry fandom because age regression role-play is so unaccepted that age regression role-players become furries because of the accepting fandom.

Babyfurs then accept the mentality of "fuck you I'm a baby fur so I'll do what I feel like" amongst a fandom that has nothing to do with age regression.

Hate it all you want, it's a fact.

[squashNstretch]

A lot of furries feel that babyfurs are piggy backing on the furry fandom because age regression role-play is so unaccepted that age regression role-players become furries because of the accepting fandom.

Babyfurs then accept the mentality of "fuck you I'm a baby fur so I'll do what I feel like" amongst a fandom that has nothing to do with age regression.

Hate it all you want, it's a fact.

I don't have an issue with how accepted age-regression roleplay is within the furry community. In fact, I completely agree that any babyfurs who take it upon themselves to flaunt diapers in everyone's faces need to calm that down NOW. In the abdl community one of the top social rules is to "not include others without permission." This also applies to anyone that likes to "get caught wearing in public." That is frowned upon moreso by abdl's because it makes all of them look like socially inept assholes. There is a time and place and discretion is the key.

But all this is not what I was referring to in my post above.

What I was referring to is the few posters that equate abdl's with pedophiles. And one of the ones that went off on that rant is going into psychology.  I truly hope her opinion or career changes because she can seriously screw up someone with that stance.

[geroff]

Mediar I know you want greatly to play this game but you need to pay your dues and learn the rules first.

Please take a seat at the kids table for a while before trying to hang with the adults. Given your views on the subject, I would wager that the kids table is where you would rather be anyways :)

*sits with mediar at the kids table wagging happily* i has company!!

anywho, im a cub fur, my mate is a baby fur and i laugh at what some people think "babyfurs" are and really to me people can think what they want to think and i dont care becasue i am who i am and i have my friends who are more than accepting and i dont push it on others.  i dont ask my other friends to do anything for me not even papa kitty becasue i have respect for who they are and what they arent or are into. so the people who are narrow minded and can not seem to grasp the whole baby fur or cub fur thing should just ignore it but they dont need to be so critical of who we are. usually the ones who critisize us are more freaky than us but in the closet and afraid to admit it.  most baby furs i know are pretty cool people that deserve to be treated how you would want to be treated yourself. 

[Pat The Fox]

Necromancy!

[Crassadon]

[admin]This post was way out of line. If I see anything like this again the poster will be permabanned. Content - describing sex acts between children[/admin]

[Crassadon]

This post was way out of line.  If I see anything like this again the poster will be permabanned.

Content - describing sex acts between children

:-X :-X :-X
This is exactly what I was talking about in my post: it's such a taboo, that we can't even talk about this issue! I understand that the website owner may have issues with the police, if their site was found to contain descriptions of this nature. So I'm not upset at all. Look: my icon is half black; do you know how often my work is taken down by the authorities? Often enough, darn it >: O   So I'm sort of used to it :P

For the record, I was very light on the description I'm charged with. Simply because my entry was so long, that I was just trying to be as brief as possible. I only said about a half dozen words that were specifically sexual in nature. I could'a been so much more descriptive; like, you don't even know :P



Anyway, a big point I wanted to make is that, in baby fur art, the players of the baby characters are not literally babies themselves. Babies can not actually use the internet. These characters are often actually played by adults, who are consenting, and responsible. 'No babies were harmed, in the production of this art.' It's fictional. And if adults wish to produce this art, to express how they feel about themselves, then they should not in anyway be discouraged from it. In my opinion.

[Unition]

[admin]It is a taboo and for good reason. What you were describing was not between adults or on the internet, and even if it was it does not belong on this forum. I am not interested in discussing this further.[/admin]

[Crassadon]

I am not interested in discussing this further.

Well, I dun want to talk about it more, either :P