Kelowna city hall is considering flying a pro-life flag next month

[Sevrin]

that's flawed logic right there, how is it discriminatory for the mayor to withdraw his support? it wouldn't have been discriminatory if he refused in the first place right? and I don't see how whether or not city hall flys a pro life flag has anything to do with their ability to express their opinions, if they want said flag flown then they should do it themselves? from what the article said shouldn't it be that this is the mayors decision to make? and what he decides should be indisputable? he's not taking away their right to express themself, he's simply not expressing their opinions himself... I feel like there's something I missed, or don't understand, because it seems that the mayors word should be final, and if he decides to go with public opinion that's his choice, if they don't like it then they shouldn't vote him in for mayor next term.

I feel like you are reading between the lines here. No matter what happens with abortion laws, there will always be those gray areas that no one can really settle on. It's just as much of a philosophical debate as it is scientific and physical, alas.

It doesn't seem that grey to me. A fetus destined for abortion has no possible memories other than darkness, white noise, and whatever feeling being suspending in a viscous fluid provides, it has nobody that knows it, loves it, cares for it, or has even seen it! it isn't capable of rational thought, and I know for a fact that it isn't self aware, so what is death to a creature like that? can it even be called death? I think the only grey area is whether it can really be considered a living being or not, compared to a life with a mother that doesn't want it or can't raise it, don't you think it would be better to stop it from ever becoming a human than give it a life that would probably filled with hardship? don't you think that such a thing is not worth ruining the life of someone who is a person, someone who is alive and can think and has memories and people that care for them? in my mind it's no contest, I don't view it as even being a separate being from the mother, it's simply an unwelcome (for people that want abortions) bodily function. I think killing a chicken is closer to murder than killing a fetus, because a chicken still has a life, a desire to survive, it has memories and experiences, it has an influence on the world, sure you're killing something either way, but killing an animal is not the same as murder, and if a fetus is less than an animal, that's about as far from murder as you can get while still killing something.

fetuses do not equal people, what makes a person an person is their collection of memories and experiences, the people who love them, self awareness, things like that, a fetus is no more than a collection of cells.

also come on man I've been trying to get you to speak up for a long time now, and you barely say anything, like two lines of text, CONVINCE ME I'M WRONG! if you believe this, I want to hear a passionate argument to your point! refute everything I've said, tell me all the reasons I'm wrong and your right.
(ps guys, is my desire to have einsman debate coming off as weird? I like debates, but maybe this isn't an appropriate topic?)

[Nibi]

also come on man I've been trying to get you to speak up for a long time now, and you barely say anything, like two lines of text, CONVINCE ME I'M WRONG! if you believe this, I want to hear a passionate argument to your point! refute everything I've said, tell me all the reasons I'm wrong and your right.
(ps guys, is my desire to have einsman debate coming off as weird? I like debates, but maybe this isn't an appropriate topic?)

Haha, no it doesn't come off weird at all to me. I'm actually quite interested in reading everybody's opinions. I'm usually on your side more though, but I think that's because I also think the same way you do about what makes a human, well, human.

Sorry to interrupt the current thread of conversation, guys, but I wanted to add an update to the original topic:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/anti-abortion-and-pro-choice-groups-square-off/article4519392/

Seems things are starting to get rather serious around here. From what I can gather, the Right To Life society's freedom of speech, in their opinion, apparently trumps women's rights. Who knew? I can't get over their seeming inability to recognize why so many people are upset over this whole ordeal.

I...*sighs* -.-;; Why does this matter so much? Why do they even need that kind of flag in the first place? I honestly thought they only flew B.C and Canadian flags. If they don't want to fly something it shouldn't matter. xD;; It's better that way. Then there's no pro-choice or pro-life support at all. If you're a mayor or involved in any kind of politics it's best to just avoid hot topics like this all together.

[Grace]

They have decided not to fly any flags apart from municipal, provincial, and national ones. I think the problem now largely lies with the fact that the last week of September was declared "protect human life" week -- something like that -- by the mayor. In other words, while they're no longer flying a pro-life flag, city hall has still openly offered it's support to the right to life group without any mention of an awareness week dedicated to women's rights or the right to choose, etc. It's very strange to me, since it really wouldn't be very hard to just make another week dedicated to women's rights, rape awareness, and so on. Then, at least, their argument would have a leg to stand on.

[Sevrin]

Haha, no it doesn't come off weird at all to me. I'm actually quite interested in reading everybody's opinions. I'm usually on your side more though, but I think that's because I also think the same way you do about what makes a human, well, human.

Yeah, I assumed as much, which is why I wasn't trying to get you to make an argument, (not that I wouldn't be interested in hearing your opinions) we seem to think alike.