http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/08/16/bc-pro-life-flag-city-hall.html (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/08/16/bc-pro-life-flag-city-hall.html)
Figured some of you might be interested in reading this. Personally, I'm highly offended that they'd even think of doing such a thing; whether they claim involvement with the organization or not, it's basically discounting all pro-choice citizens, as well as taking a huge blow at women's rights.
Thoughts?
I'll summarize my thoughts on this decision as: Wow, dick move.
"I think 'pro-life' is a very — I mean, it maybe has some history to it, for sure, but if you break it down, it's just we're for human life. There's nothing controversial there's nothing particularly political or religious about that statement," Bartram said.
Seriously?
I'm pro-choice... despite being a dude... but regardless; who doesn't like choice?
I've misplaced the link, but, apparently, once they noticed the shitstorm that started brewing once the announcement was made, city hall turned around and decided to only fly municipal, provincial, and Canadian flags. Good call, but it's one that they shouldn't have even had to consider. This was one of the dumbest things they've done as of late.
If they are reacting like that when the information went public it is obvious that they didn't ask the public. The town hall represents the municipality which represents the people and to make a choice like that on such a controversial topic is like a huge fuck you to the opinions of the citizens.
Why the heck hadn't I heard of this till now...
Here's the link I think Grace was talking about: http://bc.ctvnews.ca/no-flags-for-kelowna-after-pro-life-controversy-1.923398 (http://bc.ctvnews.ca/no-flags-for-kelowna-after-pro-life-controversy-1.923398)
Growing up as a kid I was oblivious to things like Politics, and Religion, and differeing opinions. Not saying Pro-life is right, but man are there just giant torandos of conflict that rise from this. Especially of people in power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state)
If a religion condemns an act you can't just make it illegal for that reason. I believe that abortions should only be used in certain situations like sexual assault or if the mother is at risk if she gives birth, but that's a religious belief and not one that a government can make accurate calls based on.
Just because SOME Christians believe that something is wrong, doesn't mean Christians should force everyone else to do what we/they think is right.
lots of Christians are against my sexuality, but I'm allowed to get married to who I love, because the government protects my right to.
Thats my basis on it. I'm half and half on it, but I have come to understand that you can't run a government based on a majority oppressing the minorities.
I find it bullshit that murder is illegal, yet abortion is still legal. Either legalize both or ban them both.
: einsman August 30, 2012, 08:58:09 -06:00
I find it bullshit that murder is illegal, yet abortion is still legal. Either legalize both or ban them both.
I, uh, think you're making this a little too black and white. With homocide, it's very obvious that you're taking a life because the person is there, fully formed, and, well, dead. Abortion is difficult because it's a very fuzzy grey area when it comes to when life is formed.
For the first three months or so after conception, the foetus resembles nothing of a human -- it's just a cluster of cells and then a lump of matter and doesn't develop circulation, a pulse, brain, heart, organs, etc. until later on. People who are pro-choice, myself included, believe that, at least until the foetus develops human -- or even living -- characteristics, that it can't really be considered alive and, therefore, can be aborted without "killing" anything since it wasn't really alive yet. Most abortion clinics won't perform abortions on women after their first trimester because that's when the foetus starts to develop into a human.
Something else to consider is that pro-choice is not anti-life. It simply gives women the option of having an abortion performed safely if they find themselves in a situation where it would be a better option for them, as it is the woman's life and body and should, therefore, be her choice in the matter (this isn't to say that it should be considered a form of birth control, however, as proper contraceptions should always be used, in my opinion). It's also important to note that many pro-choice women wouldn't have an abortion themselves, but believe that all women should have the option should they need it. Plus, abortions were performed long before they were legal, which was a huge health risk for the woman and could lead to infections or even death, depending on the procedure, cleanliness of the make-shift "operating room" (hotel room, bathroom, back alley...). Here's (http://open.salon.com//blog/jan_wilberg/2012/08/23/the_wire) an article/story that perfectly sums up why it's important to allow women a safe place to go if they need an abortion performed, as well as the feelings that many women experience following an abortion.
Unfortunately, pro-life all too often means anti-choice. The problem with many pro-life people is that they only care about getting the baby out no matter .what -- they don't care what happens to the mother at all, nor do they care what will happen to the child after-the-fact. They expect a woman to carry the baby to term and then, if she can't care for it, put it up for adoption. Fair enough -- it doesn't sound too bad. Except that that woman's life is on hold until the child is born and I have never seen a pro-life picketer with an adopted child, probably because they're too busy having their own kids. There are already so many children in the system, it's hard to see how this is a good option. Even if the mother chooses to keep the child, she may have to drop out of school, take a job with "better" hours that likely pays less, etc. in order to raise it (remember, women who have abortions are generally not ready, either emotionally or financially). Not only is she losing out on opportunities that could lead to a better life in the future for her, but her child will also lose out on having the life those opportunities could provide. Giving her the option to wait until she's settled and ready to have children increases the quality of life of both her and her children.
Don't get me started on the legal hypocrisy, either. Not only are there pro-life parents all over the place who think it's okay to take their daughters in for abortions because "she didn't know any better" or "she doesn't sleep around like other people who get abortions," but now they're trying to find loopholes to making abortion illegal without outright stating it -- but, of course, everyone knows exactly what they're doing. For example, Arizona, I believe, just passed a bill stating that life begins two weeks
before conception. As in, you're considered pregnant with a fully-formed child two weeks before you've had the sex resulting in said child.
Sorry, this started out as an explanation about why abortion =/= murder and turned into a rant about why I dislike anti-choice politics. :/
At 18 days [when the mother is only four days late for her first menstrual period] the fetus gains a heartbeat, and by 21 days it is pumping through a closed circulatory system, blood whose type is different from that of the mother.
So at that point it DOES become murder. Period.
: einsman August 31, 2012, 07:17:25 -06:00
At 18 days [when the mother is only four days late for her first menstrual period] the fetus gains a heartbeat, and by 21 days it is pumping through a closed circulatory system, blood whose type is different from that of the mother.
So at that point it DOES become murder. Period.
Thanks Grace, I did write a big post about it but I decided to delete it since I had a feeling it wouldn't lead anywhere. But it's really awesome you wrote that.
Also, I have a question that is sort of related einsman. Do you eat meat at all by any chance? Because being "pro-life" would make you a hypocrite would it not? Or maybe a human supremacist? :< I dunno, it's just a different way of looking at things. Do you believe human life is more important then an animals or that all life deserves not to be killed or cut short? Just my two cents.
I have actually been cutting WAY back on meat, and I am looking at going vegetarian.
ok coming in a bit late here, but this isn't a board I normally check, it just happened to be the latest post.
einsman, I've only met you once, and that wasn't really enough to really gain respect for you or anything, but I respected you as a person, like I respect all people... that being said, I just lost a lot of respect for you. It's so easy for you to say things like that since you don't have to worry about pregnancy yourself, but try to put yourself in the shoes of a woman who had an accidental pregnancy, or was, idk, RAPED or something, now in your world, because of abortion being illegal, they suddenly have to spend the next 9 months partially incapacitated (some people have actually been fired for getting pregnant, though there are laws against that) and then all of the sudden they have this baby that they have to take care of, regardless of whether they are ready for it or not, this can RUIN SOMEONES LIFE, all their plans for the future? gone, they have a baby now and have to take care of it, what if they aren't capable of taking care of it? what if the father abandons the mother? or the father is unknown? what kind of life would that child have to lead? it would live in poverty and it would have a mother that wasn't able to raise it properly (attention from the parents is one of the most important things in brain development for a child).
ok now I want you to think back to when you were 21 days old in the womb, what? you can't remember that? huh. what makes a person a person is the collection of their experiences and memories, and the people who love and care for them. there are artificial hearts grown from stem cells in laboratories, those have heartbeats, if the scientist that was using that for an experiment throws it away cause they don't need it anymore, is that murder? the heart was most certainly alive, the cells in it were alive and they were human cells, it had a heartbeat, by your definition its murder, you should get that shit outlawed man? a heartbeat doesn't mean anything, now if you were making the brain wave argument I might understand that, but even that argument is bullshit too, because no matter how you look at it, the fetus isn't a person, it hasn't grown a fully functional brain, it hasn't had any kind of experiences, it has no memories, it's just an amalgamation of cells in a pool of fluid, it has more in common with a tapeworm than a person...
OUTLAW THE MURDER OF TAPEWORMS!
Woah woah woah. First off, I NEVER said anything about those who were raped or such. There are exceptions, yes. I was meaning people who just don't wanna bother with childbirth. And also, if you can't respect someone else's stance on a subject then you shouldn't join the argument.
Thank you, guys, for weighing in, as well. Awareness of why abortion is and should stay legalized is incredibly important and not enough people understand why it is. On top of everything you've added, as I said before, it will happen anyway, so, whether people believe it's murder or not, it's much better to provide these women with a safe, healthy environment in which to undergo such an invasive procedure.
: einsman August 31, 2012, 07:17:25 -06:00
At 18 days [when the mother is only four days late for her first menstrual period] the fetus gains a heartbeat, and by 21 days it is pumping through a closed circulatory system, blood whose type is different from that of the mother.
So at that point it DOES become murder. Period.
I believe you've made it quite clear that no one can sway your opinion. Fair enough; everyone's entitled to their own point-of-view. However, I will ask that you not try to push it onto others when this does not and can not ever affect you directly; that is, you will never become pregnant, unintentionally or otherwise, and, therefore, the legality of abortion cannot affect your life in a significant way. Pushing for it to be made illegal and, if it ever comes to it, voting for it to be illegal (although I hope Canada's moved far past this point, the upheaval in the US suggests otherwise) is impacting women's rights and, ultimately, their physical and mental health.
I respect that you believe that the life of a
blob of matter with a circulatory system (this seems a bit too harsh in hindsight -- let's call it a "living," but neurologically non-functioning, being) is more important than that of a woman who's wound up in a tough situation. Please respect that almost everyone else involved in this thread would rather the woman live a happy, healthy life that she can bring a child into when she's ready, rather than ruin the lives of two people.
EDIT:
: einsman September 01, 2012, 01:26:07 -06:00
Woah woah woah. First off, I NEVER said anything about those who were raped or such. There are exceptions, yes. I was meaning people who just don't wanna bother with childbirth. And also, if you can't respect someone else's stance on a subject then you shouldn't join the argument.
I believe, as quoted above, that you basically said that "[abortion] is murder. Period." That would suggest that you don't care about the circumstances. My first reply to you already addressed the fact that abortion should not, and should never be, used as an alternative to contraception. Accidents happen, rape happens. Women should have the right to deal with these unexpected situations in a safe and controlled manner.
: einsman September 01, 2012, 01:26:07 -06:00
Woah woah woah. First off, I NEVER said anything about those who were raped or such. There are exceptions, yes. I was meaning people who just don't wanna bother with childbirth. And also, if you can't respect someone else's stance on a subject then you shouldn't join the argument.
Oh alright, sorry I guess I just misunderstood your opinion.
: einsman August 31, 2012, 07:17:25 -06:00
At 18 days [when the mother is only four days late for her first menstrual period] the fetus gains a heartbeat, and by 21 days it is pumping through a closed circulatory system, blood whose type is different from that of the mother.
So at that point it DOES become murder. Period.
Murder is obviously okay if the mother was raped, I get it now!
Furthermore, an argument isn't really an argument if I can't argue against your point, you go ahead and dispute everything I said if you want, in fact I was kind of hoping you would because then this would be fun! I prefer to look at it as a debate rather than a personal attack on you, maybe I was a little hostile with the losing respect for you comment and the sarcasm, but a little hostility is kind of inevitable when two peoples opinions vary so greatly.
I have my own opinions on this, but I will keep them to myself.
Why you ask?
Because everybody who has weighed in here has shown that they won't be swayed by anybody else's opinion.
I'd like to hear your opinions regardless.
I honestly felt like nobody was attacking anybody here, interest was sparked when this was stated:
: einsman August 30, 2012, 08:58:09 -06:00
I find it bullshit that murder is illegal, yet abortion is still legal. Either legalize both or ban them both.
Simply because it did indeed come off rather harsh and unfair. But once again, each to his own. We all have different views and opinions and that's reasonable. But even if our opinions are different, they shouldn't force others to follow them. So if you're against abortion, simply never do it yourself. If you're for it and you're faced with having to choose abortion as an option, it's there for you safely.
Alright, since I was in a bad mood when I originally replied, I would like to apologize and take the time to better explain my stance. I do believe it to be a form of murder, yes, since it it killing a living being. HOWEVER, there are times where it is "acceptable" because if a girl gets raped and such, she is not in a position to be able to properly a child, or the child may be treated as nothing more than an unwanted reminder. That is a LOT worse. HOWEVER, I find that having an abortion simply because someone was stupid and got pregnant from getting knocked up and not wanting the kid because she 'didn't expect it' or sees it as being a turnoff to guys should NOT be allowed to get one. If you don't take proper precautions, you take the consequences. As for the news story, I think it's fine simply because it is being done to show support for pro-life, but is not meant to say that women should not have choice. If it turns into that however, then I will not support it. There should be options, but only when it is justified.
: einsman September 02, 2012, 08:50:36 -06:00
Alright, since I was in a bad mood when I originally replied, I would like to apologize and take the time to better explain my stance. I do believe it to be a form of murder, yes, since it it killing a living being. HOWEVER, there are times where it is "acceptable" because if a girl gets raped and such, she is not in a position to be able to properly a child, or the child may be treated as nothing more than an unwanted reminder. That is a LOT worse. HOWEVER, I find that having an abortion simply because someone was stupid and got pregnant from getting knocked up and not wanting the kid because she 'didn't expect it' or sees it as being a turnoff to guys should NOT be allowed to get one. If you don't take proper precautions, you take the consequences. As for the news story, I think it's fine simply because it is being done to show support for pro-life, but is not meant to say that women should not have choice. If it turns into that however, then I will not support it. There should be options, but only when it is justified.
Thank you for taking the time to better explain your stance on the matter. I think that, while our morale opinions differ, we do hold somewhat similar views as to when it is an appropriate decision for someone to make.
I still can't agree with the city considering flying a pro-life flag because of the implications created by recent media and politics, but I do appreciate your input.
: einsman September 02, 2012, 08:50:36 -06:00
Alright, since I was in a bad mood when I originally replied, I would like to apologize and take the time to better explain my stance. I do believe it to be a form of murder, yes, since it it killing a living being. HOWEVER, there are times where it is "acceptable" because if a girl gets raped and such, she is not in a position to be able to properly a child, or the child may be treated as nothing more than an unwanted reminder. That is a LOT worse. HOWEVER, I find that having an abortion simply because someone was stupid and got pregnant from getting knocked up and not wanting the kid because she 'didn't expect it' or sees it as being a turnoff to guys should NOT be allowed to get one. If you don't take proper precautions, you take the consequences. As for the news story, I think it's fine simply because it is being done to show support for pro-life, but is not meant to say that women should not have choice. If it turns into that however, then I will not support it. There should be options, but only when it is justified.
Really happy you wrote that. :-3 I'd rather have a discussion over an argument any day.
: einsman September 02, 2012, 08:50:36 -06:00
Alright, since I was in a bad mood when I originally replied, I would like to apologize and take the time to better explain my stance. I do believe it to be a form of murder, yes, since it it killing a living being. HOWEVER, there are times where it is "acceptable" because if a girl gets raped and such, she is not in a position to be able to properly a child, or the child may be treated as nothing more than an unwanted reminder. That is a LOT worse. HOWEVER, I find that having an abortion simply because someone was stupid and got pregnant from getting knocked up and not wanting the kid because she 'didn't expect it' or sees it as being a turnoff to guys should NOT be allowed to get one. If you don't take proper precautions, you take the consequences. As for the news story, I think it's fine simply because it is being done to show support for pro-life, but is not meant to say that women should not have choice. If it turns into that however, then I will not support it. There should be options, but only when it is justified.
alright well sorry about the sarcasm and whatnot earlier, but consider this:
Not all methods of birth control work 100% of the time? it's not always that someone was being irresponsible, maybe the condom broke, or the pills failed to work for some reason, or perhaps they just forgot to take their pill or something (everyone forgets sometimes) it's not like all the girls that are going and having abortions are doing it because they were having unprotected sex with every guy they ever meet.
Ok, I'm going to look at it from a different perspective that I believe is close to yours: abortion is immoral, except in extreme circumstances where it was not an option for the mother or it presents a serious threat to the mothers life somehow, so under this belief, you still have to consider that not all women that are raped come forward about it, a lot of the time they are ashamed and don't want anyone to know, which is their right, so if this was that case, what do you propose said woman does? assuming that abortion is illegal except in extreme cases, and what if a woman was raped but couldn't prove it? what if there was no evidence and the court ruled against her? there's more to it than just irresponsible promiscuous women, and having the option open for women in unfortunate cases such as those mentioned above is very important, especially if they don't want to come forward about it, not telling people should be their right, not turning something they are ashamed of into a public spectacle is something they should be allowed! it also stops them from trying to perform their own abortions, or have some untrained person do it with unsanitary unprofessional tools.
Also to take a more humorous approach:
(http://www.atheistmemebase.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/084-Not-a-difficult-concept.jpg)
Okay, I see my previous statement that everybody had their mind already made up wasn't correct.
For that, I apologize.
However, I'm still not comfortable enough here to state my stance on such a controversial topic.
Maybe I need to attend a few events first...
no actually I think you were correct in that assumption, I'm still interested in talking about it though, and I'm also interested in hearing your opinions on the subject.
(btw everyone I know how I look with some of my posts, like I'm an aggressive fundie or something, but I'm really not, I just really like getting into things I'm talking about)
: Carl Foxmarten September 04, 2012, 01:33:57 -06:00
Okay, I see my previous statement that everybody had their mind already made up wasn't correct.
For that, I apologize.
However, I'm still not comfortable enough here to state my stance on such a controversial topic.
Maybe I need to attend a few events first...
I think it's very important for people to share their viewpoints
and reasoning (too many people skip that one) in order to foster recognition and understanding of the different sides of an issue. Plus, healthy debate, without emotionally-driven arguing or finger-pointing, can be really good for people, as it helps with self-expression and reasoning, among other things.
If you aren't comfortable with stating your opinion, I can't help but think that, perhaps, you don't believe that you're in the right/you're afraid someone may prove you wrong/etc. For instance, if you believe that people who are pro-choice, as well as women who've had abortions, deserve to be arrested for murder, or put on death row or something, then you should probably keep that to yourself since you're going to have a bad time if you say that. However, if you just believe that life begins at conception and wouldn't enforce pro-choice ideals yourself, but respect that pro-choice people have valid opinions and reasoning, as well (ie. you don't announce that we're horrible murderers destined for hell), then there's nothing wrong with that.
I find conversations like this work best if you focus on a few things:
Respect for differing viewpoints, assuming that logical reasons are provided; some level of tact in order to avoid making people feel insulted and, therefore, defensive and angry; a somewhat thick skin, so that you can handle it if someone does wind up making you feel hurt or insulted; humility, just in case you realize that you agree with the other side, after all
And I am sure as heck not claiming that I managed all of these all the time, haha. It can especially hard to remember that the people you're debating with feel just as strongly about their beliefs as you do about yours.
: Sevrin September 03, 2012, 10:12:14 -06:00
alright well sorry about the sarcasm and whatnot earlier, but consider this:
Not all methods of birth control work 100% of the time? it's not always that someone was being irresponsible, maybe the condom broke, or the pills failed to work for some reason, or perhaps they just forgot to take their pill or something (everyone forgets sometimes) it's not like all the girls that are going and having abortions are doing it because they were having unprotected sex with every guy they ever meet.
Ok, I'm going to look at it from a different perspective that I believe is close to yours: abortion is immoral, except in extreme circumstances where it was not an option for the mother or it presents a serious threat to the mothers life somehow, so under this belief, you still have to consider that not all women that are raped come forward about it, a lot of the time they are ashamed and don't want anyone to know, which is their right, so if this was that case, what do you propose said woman does? assuming that abortion is illegal except in extreme cases, and what if a woman was raped but couldn't prove it? what if there was no evidence and the court ruled against her? there's more to it than just irresponsible promiscuous women, and having the option open for women in unfortunate cases such as those mentioned above is very important, especially if they don't want to come forward about it, not telling people should be their right, not turning something they are ashamed of into a public spectacle is something they should be allowed! it also stops them from trying to perform their own abortions, or have some untrained person do it with unsanitary unprofessional tools.
Also to take a more humorous approach:
(http://www.atheistmemebase.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/084-Not-a-difficult-concept.jpg)
I feel like you are reading between the lines here. No matter what happens with abortion laws, there will always be those gray areas that no one can really settle on. It's just as much of a philosophical debate as it is scientific and physical, alas.
Sorry to interrupt the current thread of conversation, guys, but I wanted to add an update to the original topic:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/anti-abortion-and-pro-choice-groups-square-off/article4519392/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/anti-abortion-and-pro-choice-groups-square-off/article4519392/)
Seems things are starting to get rather serious around here. From what I can gather, the Right To Life society's freedom of speech, in their opinion, apparently trumps women's rights. Who knew? I can't get over their seeming inability to recognize why so many people are upset over this whole ordeal.
that's flawed logic right there, how is it discriminatory for the mayor to withdraw his support? it wouldn't have been discriminatory if he refused in the first place right? and I don't see how whether or not city hall flys a pro life flag has anything to do with their ability to express their opinions, if they want said flag flown then they should do it themselves? from what the article said shouldn't it be that this is the mayors decision to make? and what he decides should be indisputable? he's not taking away their right to express themself, he's simply not expressing their opinions himself... I feel like there's something I missed, or don't understand, because it seems that the mayors word should be final, and if he decides to go with public opinion that's his choice, if they don't like it then they shouldn't vote him in for mayor next term.
: einsman September 04, 2012, 09:01:27 -06:00
I feel like you are reading between the lines here. No matter what happens with abortion laws, there will always be those gray areas that no one can really settle on. It's just as much of a philosophical debate as it is scientific and physical, alas.
It doesn't seem that grey to me. A fetus destined for abortion has no possible memories other than darkness, white noise, and whatever feeling being suspending in a viscous fluid provides, it has nobody that knows it, loves it, cares for it, or has even seen it! it isn't capable of rational thought, and I know for a fact that it isn't self aware, so what is death to a creature like that? can it even be called death? I think the only grey area is whether it can really be considered a living being or not, compared to a life with a mother that doesn't want it or can't raise it, don't you think it would be better to stop it from ever becoming a human than give it a life that would probably filled with hardship? don't you think that such a thing is not worth ruining the life of someone who is a person, someone who is alive and can think and has memories and people that care for them? in my mind it's no contest, I don't view it as even being a separate being from the mother, it's simply an unwelcome (for people that want abortions) bodily function. I think killing a chicken is closer to murder than killing a fetus, because a chicken still has a life, a desire to survive, it has memories and experiences, it has an influence on the world, sure you're killing something either way, but killing an animal is not the same as murder, and if a fetus is less than an animal, that's about as far from murder as you can get while still killing something.
fetuses do not equal people, what makes a person an person is their collection of memories and experiences, the people who love them, self awareness, things like that, a fetus is no more than a collection of cells.
also come on man I've been trying to get you to speak up for a long time now, and you barely say anything, like two lines of text, CONVINCE ME I'M WRONG! if you believe this, I want to hear a passionate argument to your point! refute everything I've said, tell me all the reasons I'm wrong and your right.
(ps guys, is my desire to have einsman debate coming off as weird? I like debates, but maybe this isn't an appropriate topic?)
: Sevrin September 05, 2012, 01:58:50 -06:00
also come on man I've been trying to get you to speak up for a long time now, and you barely say anything, like two lines of text, CONVINCE ME I'M WRONG! if you believe this, I want to hear a passionate argument to your point! refute everything I've said, tell me all the reasons I'm wrong and your right.
(ps guys, is my desire to have einsman debate coming off as weird? I like debates, but maybe this isn't an appropriate topic?)
Haha, no it doesn't come off weird at all to me. I'm actually quite interested in reading everybody's opinions. I'm usually on your side more though, but I think that's because I also think the same way you do about what makes a human, well, human.
: Grace September 05, 2012, 01:36:29 -06:00
Sorry to interrupt the current thread of conversation, guys, but I wanted to add an update to the original topic:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/anti-abortion-and-pro-choice-groups-square-off/article4519392/ (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/anti-abortion-and-pro-choice-groups-square-off/article4519392/)
Seems things are starting to get rather serious around here. From what I can gather, the Right To Life society's freedom of speech, in their opinion, apparently trumps women's rights. Who knew? I can't get over their seeming inability to recognize why so many people are upset over this whole ordeal.
I...*sighs* -.-;; Why does this matter so much? Why do they even need that kind of flag in the first place? I honestly thought they only flew B.C and Canadian flags. If they don't want to fly something it shouldn't matter. xD;; It's better that way. Then there's no pro-choice or pro-life support at all. If you're a mayor or involved in any kind of politics it's best to just avoid hot topics like this all together.
They have decided not to fly any flags apart from municipal, provincial, and national ones. I think the problem now largely lies with the fact that the last week of September was declared "protect human life" week -- something like that -- by the mayor. In other words, while they're no longer flying a pro-life flag, city hall has still openly offered it's support to the right to life group without any mention of an awareness week dedicated to women's rights or the right to choose, etc. It's very strange to me, since it really wouldn't be very hard to just make another week dedicated to women's rights, rape awareness, and so on. Then, at least, their argument would have a leg to stand on.
: Nibi September 05, 2012, 04:57:38 -06:00
Haha, no it doesn't come off weird at all to me. I'm actually quite interested in reading everybody's opinions. I'm usually on your side more though, but I think that's because I also think the same way you do about what makes a human, well, human.
Yeah, I assumed as much, which is why I wasn't trying to get you to make an argument, (not that I wouldn't be interested in hearing your opinions) we seem to think alike.