I apologize for the vague title, but I'm still not 100% sure on how to communicate this issue.
Also, I wasn't sure if this should go in the Help/Advice section or the Artists section, as this post is more asking other artists for advice...
Anyway, I'll try not to rant and ramble, but I make no promises. I am damn good at both of them.
Please excuse me as I try to figure out how to word this...
It's been my experience, both personal and observed, that most artists clearly demonstrate the old cliché that "an artist is his worst critic". I can't count the number of artists I see who always claim "well, I made this, and it's ok I guess. I thought it was crap, but I'll post it anyway". And no, this isn't just reserved for people who might actually be terrible at drawing. I have seen some very good and very popular artists who think this way. So I think this is a definite, observable phenomenon in the world of art. I'm not sure why this is, I just know that it is.
For some people, it's little more than an "i know i can do better" which actually serves as a positive mindset to help them improve their art. For others it's a near-debilitating way of thinking. I have a friend who falls into the latter category, who has actually sworn-off drawing completely (and has deleted his entire online artistic identity twice) despite being a damn good sketcher.
Now, myself, I too fall into the second category. Most of my friends, few of which are artistically inclined, claim that my work is great. However, they're viewing my art "better than theirs" and use that standard to conclude that it's good. However, when I look at my art, all I see is an abundance of mistakes. Believe it or not, for the longest time I was in the first category where my self-critiquing was a push to improve. But a year or so back I felt like I had completely lost my ability to draw—a sort of anti-epiphany—and I haven't been able to get out of that mindset since.
I think one of the problems is I've been learning as an artist for most my life (I'm even currently going to a post-secondary art school), so I know how good art is supposed to look. I can see the technical flaws, and know what makes good composition. But when I draw, I can't help but feel I'm completely unable to implement what I've learnt.
I think the bottom line of all this is, do any of you (especially other artists) have suggestions for getting past this type of negative mindset? Any ideas on why this phenomenon exists? If my generalized statistics are true, then surely some of you experience this, right? And surely you've found ways to keep making art without feeling terrible about it...
Because once or twice a month now, I'll grab my pencil and paper with the intent of drawing, and a few hours later I'll have pages of sketches that I'll just stash away in disgust.
BLEH. That was so much more rant-y then I wanted it to be. But this has been bugging me since, well, since I stopped liking my own art. It's just frustrating to say you're an artist, but not have anything to show people, because it's all hiding in dark drawers and sketchpads, as far from others' eyes as possible. I'm still not sure if I've figured out what I wanted to say. -.=.-
Hmmm.
The way I tend to deal with this is through sheer stubbornness.
I'm rather driven myself, but that doesn't mean I don't not dislike my artwork.
Whenever I start to become discouraged, I try to turn it into envy? Then that envy into motivation.
Its pushes me forward and forces me to over look my mistakes.
Sure, they're there? But learning to overlook, move on, and continue forward is one of the most beneficial things an artist can learn.
being aware of your mistakes is good, but learning from them, not obsessing over it, and having FUN with your work is better.
I hope this helps even a little bit. xD If I feel like I need to edit this post to add more, I shall. ^w^/
Well, my advice is to stop drawing for a while, take a walk out in the park, before getting yourself back into artist gear. I face a similar problem, sorta a bit of a your first point and a bit of your second point (though it lies more in the first point that you gave), so I'm also open to advice as well.
: Chi April 12, 2012, 11:13:54 -06:00
Hmmm.
The way I tend to deal with this is through sheer stubbornness.
I'm rather driven myself, but that doesn't mean I don't not dislike my artwork.
Whenever I start to become discouraged, I try to turn it into envy? Then that envy into motivation.
Its pushes me forward and forces me to over look my mistakes.
Sure, they're there? But learning to overlook, move on, and continue forward is one of the most beneficial things an artist can learn.
being aware of your mistakes is good, but learning from them, not obsessing over it, and having FUN with your work is better.
I hope this helps even a little bit. xD If I feel like I need to edit this post to add more, I shall. ^w^/
Yes, thanks, Chi. Every new perspective helps. ^^
Let's see...
Stubbornness? Check.
Art Envy? Check.
Motivation?Che—err... partial check?
Overlook Mistakes? Nope, that's definitely a problem area. In most circumstances, I'd imagine just resolving to upload work regardless of mistakes would be the perfect solution. But for me, the fact that I'm then displaying imperfect work just makes me feel horribly bleh. I don't know. I'm a pretty weird guy.
But yus, having fun with art is absolutely fantastic and I long for the days I can try it again. ^.=.^
Hence the request for advice.
: Tef April 12, 2012, 11:55:34 -06:00
Well, my advice is to stop drawing for a while, take a walk out in the park, before getting yourself back into artist gear. I face a similar problem, sorta a bit of a your first point and a bit of your second point (though it lies more in the first point that you gave), so I'm also open to advice as well.
Hehe, well, considering I take multi-week breaks between each attempt at drawing, I'd say that's a pretty large break.
Though, you might actually have something there. Perhaps, instead of drawing for an hour straight and giving up for half a month, I should draw for a bit, take a small break when I start feeling frustrated, and then continue drawing again.
I'll probably give it a try and hope it helps somewhat. Not that I expect instant results. Again, this is a deep-rooted mindset, and it's damn hard to change those on a dime. Or at all, it seems.
I find some people do it to put up a barrier, so if someone gives any sort of criticism they can say "Oh yeah I know part x sucks." (I'm guilty :V )
I can also recall from elementary school people using the tactic for "pity points". 8U
What I try to do is just say nothing about the quality of what I'm submitting, and enjoy what I've made for myself. After a while the mistakes become apparent and I can learn from them, getting input from strangers helps a lot too (they don't feel a need to please me 8U). This motivates me to continue making better stuff. :3
Having older/crappier/things with mistakes to compare newer stuff to is nice as well. When I browse galleries I'll often jump to the beginning and see how far the artist has come since they started uploading. That to me is more impressive than a single "perfect piece".
I draw for FUN! I don't draw to be better than anyone, and I certainly don't get all haggard and self-loathing over the stuff I create. I just love to create things, and it makes it all that much better when I can see myself improve over time.
I "throw away" a whole ton of artwork all the time. I generally just doodle something and if I feel it doesn't contribute anything to my portfolio or is worthy of finishing/uploading, it gets put in a folder somewhere, or stays in my sketchbook, forgotten, until myself or someone else is browsing through it and I'm reminded of it. Don't feel bad about throwing away your own drawings. Just draw draw draw until you get sick of it and then pick up something else for a while. You'll notice yourself improving quickly just because you're getting the extra practice.
I sucked at one time, too, like everyone else. I just had way too much fun doing it to quit. I'm no Rembrandt either, but I don't care. I just like drawing, and I will continue doing it until I tire of it (which, hopefully, will be never!)
Oh, and I suggest that you shouldn't label a chunk of your time for drawing - as that will be quite ineffective. Just draw when you are bored and all that. Of course, that'll be considered more of a doodle, but a doodle is a drawing nevertheless.
I doodle a tad myself, but I'm much more serious about sculpture and crafting, and in those areas I can most assuredly say that I am of the cut "You are you're own worst critic."
Although I am usually pleased with my work, when I look at it, I can see all the little flaws, the less than smooth lines, etc. That lack of perfection frustrates me, and drives me to try harder in the next one. For me, it's just the way my brain is wired.
My suggestion for you would be to try something totally different, either something you've never done before or something you've always wanted to try. When I forced myself to draw every day for a month, I tried my hand at realism, and I surprised and delighted myself. It most assuredly wasn't perfect, but it was a hell of a lot better than I thought it would be. It excited me, refreshed me, and encouraged me to keep drawing and trying things out.
If you are well trained in a good variety of drawing styles, perhaps try another medium. Try sculpting something, or give painting a go. Try woodburning. Experiment until you find something that re-energizes the artistic part of your brain.
Art shouldn't be work; it should be a joy. ^.~
: Naetholix April 12, 2012, 07:08:57 -06:00Don't feel bad about throwing away your own drawings. Just draw draw draw until you get sick of it and then pick up something else for a while. You'll notice yourself improving quickly just because you're getting the extra practice.
Heh, I can never convince myself to throw my drawings away, but I'm a bit of a pack rat, really... :P
But see, I'll draw till I'm sick of it, and I'll review what I've accomplished and what I've drawn in the past few months, and I just can't see the improvement. I mean, hell, I'm sure it's there. I have drawings I made in sixth grade, and there is a definite difference. But the past two years of drawing haven't yielded much improvement in my eyes, and that right there is what bugs me the most, I think.
: Tef April 12, 2012, 08:37:15 -06:00Of course, that'll be considered more of a doodle, but a doodle is a drawing nevertheless.
Oh, I doodle 24/7, practically, and that artwork doesn't bother me too much. I was more referring to creating actual decent artistic compositions when I posted this. Silly little doodles are probably the main thing keeping me drawing, I just give them zero artistic weight.
: bloodredruby April 12, 2012, 11:00:36 -06:00
My suggestion for you would be to try something totally different, either something you've never done before or something you've always wanted to try. When I forced myself to draw every day for a month, I tried my hand at realism, and I surprised and delighted myself. It most assuredly wasn't perfect, but it was a hell of a lot better than I thought it would be. It excited me, refreshed me, and encouraged me to keep drawing and trying things out.
If you are well trained in a good variety of drawing styles, perhaps try another medium. Try sculpting something, or give painting a go. Try woodburning. Experiment until you find something that re-energizes the artistic part of your brain.
o.=.o
Even though I try to do different things (I <3 experimentation), in retrospect I believe I've been stuck in a rut. So thank you very much for pointing that out. When I draw—other than doodling—it's almost always either an attempted-realism or surrealism. I've been trying to develop a style more along those lines, but haven't figured out a style that worked for me. I'll definitely keep that in mind. Anyone have suggestions for other art styles to practice in?
As for different medium... again, something I really should be trying. I rarely sculpt, but when I do, I enjoy it immensely, and I really can't think of a reason why I haven't done more. I used to detest painting, but now that I have decent paint supplies, I've found I enjoy it more. I was actually fooling around a bit with my acrylics this past week, and almost convinced myself to take out the canvas my mom got me for Christmas. However, I have so much less experience in painting, I feel it would be a waste of expensive canvas. :P
But yes I think... I think I am actually becoming excited about art again, just thinking of all the new things I could experiment with. o.=.o
*hugs a bloodredruby and hopes he'll still feel gung-ho about painting tomorrow*
*hugs everyone cuz you're all so willing to help~* ^.=.^
How often do you draw with other artists? I always loved fooling around in OC with some of my favourite artists, and it really helps drive me to draw more.
Although it's certainly not productive to continually be down on your artistic abilities, it's also not necessarily a BAD thing to be critical of your own work. The best balance is to be able to see the 'flaws' (or, things that could be better) and improve for next time, without putting yourself down about it.
Too much in the other direction is far worse, in my opinion. Someone who thinks their work is amazing and not in need of improvement isn't going to improve, and is only a pain to deal with.
Naetholix said it already: As long as you're having fun, it's all good!
-LS
: Lady Serpent April 13, 2012, 12:13:00 -06:00
Although it's certainly not productive to continually be down on your artistic abilities, it's also not necessarily a BAD thing to be critical of your own work. The best balance is to be able to see the 'flaws' (or, things that could be better) and improve for next time, without putting yourself down about it.
I criticize my own artwork all the time, but I do it more as if I'm critiquing someone
else's drawings. "Shoulders are a tad too wide; legs look a little too long; and I probably should have thrown a splash of green under there in another layer because the lighting sorta calls for it. Must remember all this for next time."
Not:
"Fuck the shoulders OHHHHH MY GOD WHY. SERIOUSLY!!! I've done this a THOUSAND times and it never gets any better god fucking dammit. Screw this, I'm playing League of Legends!" :I
: Naetholix April 13, 2012, 11:01:41 -06:00
How often do you draw with other artists? I always loved fooling around in OC with some of my favourite artists, and it really helps drive me to draw more.
Hmmm.... maybe twice a year? xP
I occasionally drop by iScribble.com, but none of my few artist friends have tablets, so I have never really had anyone to draw with. It's always fun though, even if it's just mindless doodling.
: Lady Serpent April 13, 2012, 12:13:00 -06:00Naetholix said it already: As long as you're having fun, it's all good!
That was the part I was trying to get help on. I was finding that drawing wasn't fun, because I couldn't stop critiquing my work and couldn't see improvement.
Ima try though, because I very much believe drawing and being artistic should be oodles of fun.
*Hugs a MrTerrible back*
If you are concerned about "wasting" the canvas your mother gave you, you could always grab a couple of cheap ones from a doller store and take a whack at painting, and save the gifted one for when you have a solid, defined vision of what you want to paint on it. ^.~
Also, if you do feel like sculpting a bit (glad to hear you enjoy it so much; I do too!) I suggest the doller store as well. The "Everything for $1.25" has/had some fantastic ultra light, air dry clay. This stuff is what I work with, and I absolutely adore it. It takes 12 hours or less to dry to a point where you can paint it, is damn near weightless, and has a consistancy that is reminiscint of marshmallow. It also has the added bonus that if you decide that one particular part of the sculpture is not quite the way you want it to be, you can shave off bits or cut off whole chunks, limbs, etc, and re-attatch to remold it with fresh clay. The fresh clay bonds to the dry, unpainted clay splendidly! When it's totally dry, the clay has the consistancy of hard foam, so it has a little bit of flexibility, so it is harder to break it by bumping it or dropping it.
Hm...speaking of stores, the only artists store - I mean store chain - that I know of around in the Lower Mainland Area is Michael's, if that's of any advice. ^w^;
: bloodredruby April 13, 2012, 11:41:05 -06:00
If you are concerned about "wasting" the canvas your mother gave you, you could always grab a couple of cheap ones from a doller store and take a whack at painting, and save the gifted one for when you have a solid, defined vision of what you want to paint on it. ^.~
Also, if you do feel like sculpting a bit (glad to hear you enjoy it so much; I do too!) I suggest the doller store as well. The "Everything for $1.25" has/had some fantastic ultra light, air dry clay.
I've got a bit of painting paper (ex. thick paper meant for acrylics and watercolour) that I'd use before breaking out the canvases. But I
have been trying to find a decent dollar store around here. I'm not sure why I haven't been able to find one yet, but I'll choose to blame my unnaturally slow internet. :P
And anything with the consistency of a marshmallow must be good! I'll just have to make extra-sure that I don't eat it. e.=.e
: Tef April 14, 2012, 11:31:01 -06:00
Hm...speaking of stores, the only artists store - I mean store chain - that I know of around in the Lower Mainland Area is Michael's, if that's of any advice. ^w^;
When I moved across the city a few months ago, I discovered that there was a DeSerres two blocks away from my school (so, 6 blocks away from where I live). I find it to be much cheaper than Michael's, plus I get student discounts! ^^,