I found this interesting little snippet regarding fashion sense among the young people downtown.
Showing here: http://www.bcbusinessonline.ca/bcb/sponsored/style-guide/wear-else/2009/09/02/what-vancouver-people-wear (http://www.bcbusinessonline.ca/bcb/sponsored/style-guide/wear-else/2009/09/02/what-vancouver-people-wear)
It's interesting because Vancouver is often regarded by tourists as being one of the most open, accepting and culturally diverse cities in the world. However this author feels our fashion minded citizens are too sensitive to the trendy and socially acceptable in their clothing.
Looking at the direction North American fashion took this past season, it is easy to see her point. look up the autumn or winter collections from any major designer for 2011, and notice the excessive amounts of beige and grey wool. :(
Typically winter lines have always been muted compared to spring and summer, but this year seems... sepia to the extreme.
Speaking primarily of high fashion of course. The mid-price stuff in the malls seemed to be going back to jewel tones this year. :roll:
Now what are your thoughts ladies and gentlemen? Do you agree with her? Are we really no more fashionable than a bunch of midwest townies in this cosmopolitan city? ???
What do you guys think will be big starting this spring of 2012? Your opinions, if you please! :monocle:
I now have a bright, nigh-fluorescent orange hoodie, and acid washed, tight jeans to match. If not that hoodie, a multitude of other hoodies, and simple dark grey jackets.
I know we hit a 70s revival type thing a few years back - I'm (im)patiently waiting for 80s neon to make a comeback. I don't know if we ever grew out of the 90s grunge look, though - we're not THAT far from Seattle, right? Maybe that's where all this persistent plaid is coming from. ;)
: Kithop December 30, 2011, 01:22:54 -07:00
I now have a bright, nigh-fluorescent orange hoodie, and acid washed, tight jeans to match. If not that hoodie, a multitude of other hoodies, and simple dark grey jackets.
I know we hit a 70s revival type thing a few years back - I'm (im)patiently waiting for 80s neon to make a comeback. I don't know if we ever grew out of the 90s grunge look, though - we're not THAT far from Seattle, right? Maybe that's where all this persistent plaid is coming from. ;)
I KNOW RIGHT!?!?!?!?
Now I like vintage and distressed as much as the next fag, but some things just seem far too over done up here. A plague on the bastard who keeps bringing plaid back every year! >:( We've seen plaid. We've seen it traditionally for the past hundred years - and now we've seen it in purple. There is nothing more that can be done with plaid. Plaid is finished. It needs to die. Too many times in the past decade has there been plaid.
Neon was big this past summer. I got a couple discounted hoodies on boxing day - pink and hi-lite marker green. :gay:
I guess that accounts for the washed out monochromatic dying-tree-coloured earth tones this winter.
But what do you think about fashion in Vancouver right now? Are we really 'too safe' in every art form here?
Foreigners accuse of apologizing too much and being too shy and submissive. Perhaps they're right and that's reflected in what we wear.
I'd be tempted to agree if I got out enough to people watch and pay attention to it, to be honest. ;) I guess the closest I can come is window shopping at the mall the past few weeks, and now that I think about it I do see it there - lots and lots of blacks, greys, and earth tones. Maybe you'll see the odd bit of purple or red, but it's rare. It was actually kind of a pain to go clothes shopping since next to nothing except maybe the skater-type stores were jumping out at me.
My dad actually got me a nice, simple, navy blue woolen sweater from The Bay or Sears or something for Christmas - I remember wandering around with him and realizing that it all looked the same. I normally get this kind of choking 'ugh everything is so hot and dry and musty' feeling in department stores, but it's the same for the whole damned mall. Everywhere looks like the men's section at The Bay, and not in a good way. X.X
I have mixed feelings about agreeing with you. :(
If the author is right it doesn't say much for Vancouver.
Is it weird that I get strangely happy in places like American Apparel and I think it's Urban Outfitters or Urban Behaviour (Urban something. c.c) when they have a rack of clothes that looks like a rainbow threw up on them? Especially, bright, in-your-face colours? Don't get me wrong, though - I do love me some black; I tend to gravitate towards black with uber-bright-blue accents or stitching.
...You wouldn't think I was straight... XD
Nah, if I hadn't already met you I'd certainly think you were a homo after this thread. :gay:
I wear either camo cargo pants or black "dress pants", random t-shirts of any color and usually a red hoodie. I dress like I feel, and that is 18 haha, I don't pursue fashion trends cause I don't usually spend money that way or that carelessly and I don't feel an interest to try and impress people, but its also due to the massive cynic in me. When I see a sharp dressed person all I tend to think is "he/she is gonna go to starbucks and whine that there isnt the right amount of foam in their
Personally I think its more important to have comfortable warm clothing in winter instead of obsessing over looking trendy and having your balls retract into your rib cage :monocle: Vancouver is just another big city, I don't see how fashion is really important news, we got the reputation as a melting pot and everyone's idea of a melting pot is that its full of this great diversity as if said place would had a China town, East Indian town, African town, German town etc etc with all their little themes and fashions, when usually a melting pot tends to just make everyone more bland because they are trying to fir the status quo of dressing like we are all going to a funeral (and if you work in an office then it feels like it as well lol)
When you dress up, what impression would you like to leave on people?
: Renwaldo December 30, 2011, 10:29:47 -07:00
When you dress up, what impression would you like to leave on people?
I'd like them to have whatever impression they want, because anyone who is going to make their assumptions about me because of what I wear is not worth my time.
I wear whatever feels comfortable. I wear a lot of tight, sleeveless shirts because I find I'm always too warm. I buy cheap jeans at Zellers and Mark's Work Wearhouse. I think 95% of the things that I wear are from Zellers, Value Village or a 70%-off sale at Bootlegger. I have 4 pairs of shoes: my training/running shoes, my everyday shoes, hiking boots and work boots. I wear them until they literally fall off my feet or until the soles get so flat that my diabetic feet start screaming bloody murder at me every time I put them on.
The only thing I wear which I put real money in is my footwear, because I can't stand my feet being uncomfortable (and it's really not a good thing for them to be, since diabetes brings bad circulation in my feet).
But I guess it's the fact that I AM a "midwest townie," that I should really fit the description, eh? =P
: Naetholix December 30, 2011, 11:13:21 -07:00
I'd like them to have whatever impression they want, because anyone who is going to make their assumptions about me because of what I wear is not worth my time.
Everybody makes those assumptions though. Even if those assumptions are, "Oh look someone who is well dressed, they must be on their way to starbucks to bitch about their coffee and write bad pulp fiction on their macbook." Whether or not you're aware of it you make those judgments every time you look at someone. Perhaps in glancing you might think to yourself, "Oh look, that gentleman has multiple piercings and torn jeans, clearly he doesn't care what the masses think of his style! I like this guy! Bravo sir!" :gay:
I've found in my experience the 'alternative' people far more judgmental than the so called 'tools.' They're so obsessed with their appearance because they're afraid of looking like they graduated from prep school, and heaven forbid if they're required to conform to a uniform. Snowflakes out-judge tools. :-*
However, back on topic, what do you think of the article and Vancouver fashion?
I find it hilarious that absolutely every single person answered "Why that?" with "It's the in thing" and "it's unique".
Meh, if I'm off the clock I wear jeans and T-shirts and hiking shoes, and that's about my level of fashion because that's what I feel comfortable in. The shirts are about the only concession to making an impression, as I've got a nice collection of interesting ones that can be attention-getting if people pay attention to them. *shrugs*
(On the clock I wear bland business casual, occasionally involving suits and ties if necessary.)
: Renwaldo December 30, 2011, 10:29:47 -07:00
When you dress up, what impression would you like to leave on people?
I leave the impression that I got better things to do than obsess over what I dress like? I don't wear rags or something. Pretty much like Neox said, I wear whats durable, Comfortable and affordable. Regarding judgements though, I have seen girls in hoodies that are random colors that don't match their pants, though nothing of it, seen guys in leather boots, jeans and a wife beater. Again never thought much of, pretty much cause you can tell the person is just dressing how they like and whats affordable. People who over dress though stand out a lot Hipsters and businessmen/women alike and more time than not, yes the attitude can and has matched their dressing style.
Plus my encounters with formal and "medium-high cost" clothing has usually been a bad one, dress pants that don't hold up to normal every day walking, sitting etc. fancy long sleeved shirts that rip out at the pits because I guess you shouldn't be able to move in them, $120 pairs of shoes that "go flat" in the soles when I have had $70 pairs that have lasted roughly 2 years each of much more intense use. Name brand stuff is hit and miss, most of the time you are just paying for the name, not the quality it seems. Not to say I don't own any "fancy" clothes, I just tend to by stuff based on its reputation. Leather jackets that are not too tight so they wont rip out and are not bought solely on name alone, Blunderstone dress boots (they had a reputation for being extremely durable, so they were actually worth the price)
Oh come on now - you guys are avoiding the question! :P
Surely you have more to say about your style than that! I wasn't asking how you dress specifically, but how you wish to be perceived at the first glance. :monocle: When making an impression of yourself to a stranger what is the first thing you want them to think when they notice you? Lets assume you're trying to impress this person.
Everyone seems to want to discuss their own style here, okay so why not? Let's. :D Share with me your looks. Do you maintain just one or do you have a lot of them?
Now anyone can pull of leather boots and a graphic tee, so what does that mean to you guys? Describe to me your favourite leather boots and t-shirts.
High fashion doesn't always have to mean expensive clothing.
Vintage has been extremely popular these past few years. It's why we keep seeing plaid every bloody year, it's timeless and adaptable! :(
If you look hard enough, you can find tons of nice clothes in second hand stores. Thing like mens suit jackets and ladies heels in black are basic pieces of everyones wardrobe! They are the foundation of a good ensemble. You can wear any old suit with a white shirt and new tie and fool everyone into thinking it's new.
You don't strike me as someone who wears many suits, but you can apply the same logic to secondhand t-shirts and jeans. :gay:
Then there are HUNDREDS of labels (legal and otherwise) that mimic the designs of expensive brands for a very low price to the consumer. Every piece of clothing you see in places like Walmart was built around something that was high fashion years before.
I can agree with you there, you can find some nice stuff almost anywhere depending on what you are looking for.
I am still not sure if I fully understand your question, really the first impression I want people to have of me is by my attitude and what I am talking about, not what I wear lol. Im sure as long as you are not wearing filthy clothes with all sorts of rips and holes in them (not the lame trendy worn clothes, I mean legitimate worn) then I don't think it will have much bearing on the issue. But if pressed I would have to say the only impression I go for is that I am simply clean lol like if I am going to an interview, I put on a decent sweater or long shirt, some of my bland black pants. Thats about as fancy as I go really lol. But day to day I am hoodies, cargo pants/ dress pants (simply cause I have more dress pants than cargos due to previous jobs sadly) not really picky, as long as it fits good, isn't baggy or too tight and is comfortable I am happy. color wise I am a real red and black sorta guy I guess, im just a sucker for those colors, but I will wear just about any color lol
I guess the reason why I'm sorta oblivious to the mundanity of colours in fall/winter fashion is because I'm not a fan of wearing loud colours myself.
Eh, bugger this notion of trendy dress; I'm wearing a purple shirt and black pants. Why? Because I bloody well can! Blame H&M and other faux-culture warehouses for the rest. :P
: Drake Wingfire December 30, 2011, 10:51:14 -07:00
I can agree with you there, you can find some nice stuff almost anywhere depending on what you are looking for.
I am still not sure if I fully understand your question, really the first impression I want people to have of me is by my attitude and what I am talking about, not what I wear lol. Im sure as long as you are not wearing filthy clothes with all sorts of rips and holes in them (not the lame trendy worn clothes, I mean legitimate worn) then I don't think it will have much bearing on the issue. But if pressed I would have to say the only impression I go for is that I am simply clean lol like if I am going to an interview, I put on a decent sweater or long shirt, some of my bland black pants. Thats about as fancy as I go really lol. But day to day I am hoodies, cargo pants/ dress pants (simply cause I have more dress pants than cargos due to previous jobs sadly) not really picky, as long as it fits good, isn't baggy or too tight and is comfortable I am happy. color wise I am a real red and black sorta guy I guess, im just a sucker for those colors, but I will wear just about any color lol
From the second they look at you people are already judging you. Everybody passes judgement on each others aesthetic, before you open your mouth to greet someone they're already sizing you up. I was asking what you want people to think about you upon the first meeting in that split second before the, "Hello, my name is [anonymous], it is a pleasure to meet you!" :3
Perhaps you are right though, and you don't put much thought at all into what you wear. :-X
: Renwaldo January 01, 2012, 01:45:38 -07:00
From the second they look at you people are already judging you. Everybody passes judgement on each others aesthetic, before you open your mouth to greet someone they're already sizing you up. I was asking what you want people to think about you upon the first meeting in that split second before the, "Hello, my name is [anonymous], it is a pleasure to meet you!" :3
Perhaps you are right though, and you don't put much thought at all into what you wear. :-X
I would hesitate to phrase it THAT bluntly and negatively, I don't just slap on what ever is around, you wont find me in a hoodie and shorts or some stuff (im not stupid). There is a difference between putting on fancy clothes to try and be something you are not, and just wearing what you like or find comfortable. I think you are over simplifying it into only 2 category of "slum people attire" and "dressing nice"
People who are gonna judge solely based on how one dresses and try and find a way to boost their own ego based on fashion can simply suck the business end of a shotgun and go "Kurt Cobain" themselves to put it nicely, but I know you cant get rid of shallow people so easily
as much as I wish you could Hell I know I like all others judge all the same, but at the very least I still give people a chance to show me who they actually are :P (I just really really don't condone douche bag judgmental people as "normal" nor do I accept that 2nd grader logic from any person who walks around acting like that)
Whoah now, where is all this coming from? I started this thread after reading an article on the lack of effort the fashion minded in Vancouver put into their pieces.
I never implied anything about judging you solely based on your attire, so you may lower your hackles please.
All I did was acknowledge the fact that we are being judged upon what we choose to wear. How much of an impact that has upon how you see yourself versus how others see you is entirely up to you.
I just thought this would make for an interesting discussion.
You are the one who insinuated the kind of clothing you don is not a high priority to you. If you had no interest in the topic why did you post?
Let's be clear here: 'fancy' clothing does not equate to fashionable, nor is a good outfit determined by it's price.
Presently in this city young people are paying through their noses at boutiques for the same plaid knits that could be found at supermarkets ten years ago.
^ Lets bring the discussion back to that.
Simply saying I don't put any thought at all into what I wear was probably a bad way to word it honestly.
My second part was not attacking you, it was attacking the "types" around big city's who are like that, I just find the mentality and attitude of them to be disgusting and more shallow than a puddle.
lol I cringe though at that last line "Presently in this city young people are paying through their noses at boutiques for the same plaid knits that could be found at supermarkets ten years ago." Youth in this province are usually in the poor house as it is with school, not many decent jobs etc etc, if they are buying overpriced old clothes that have become hipster attire now, it doesn't say much for who they actually are or their financial skills X.=.X I am not implying that people are dumb for not predicting trends or something, im just saying it seems rather silly for people to go our and pay 2x - 5x the price for clothing they normally would turn their nose up at or have called plain or geeky only a few years ago.
(tangent) No wonder no one took the Occupy movements seriously :-\
Well bland clothes=safe, and in the fashion industry (hell, any industry) safe=profit. Sadly, the fashion industry now is starting to enter a slow stagnation where all the major houses are just pumping out a status quo in order to keep brand appeal. My education has me watching fashion forecasts, and what I've noticed is the major fashion houses are all going "look at how awesome our lines are!" And all the magazines and critics are pretty much patting them on the back for doing more of the same and agreeing with them. Why? Well, my personal theory is that the belief in the industry now is that in order to succeed, everybody has to be like Lagerfeld or Jacobs, and what have you. From what I've seen, there hasn't been much innovation this past season, and what I've seen from the upcoming spring lines, we can expect more of the same. (Not to say the clothing from the major houses aren't really nice, but they're all taking plays from the same book)
I myself would love to start a label that works in lots of different, interesting colours and unusual pieces (In fact, I have several ideas on the back burner for if I ever do start a label). There's something that's telling of somebody that will wear neons and pastels, when everything else is grey wool and beige (looking at you, H&M's winter line).
If you want clothes that don't really follow what the major house trends are, and want brighter clothing, try shopping at Urban Planet, Stitches, Bluenotes, or any small to mid-sized retailer. Because they don't have the huge demand to keep up with the major houses (like H&M, Aritzea and similar stores), they're free to take some more creative liberties in their lines. In fact, some of my favorite clothes come from Urban Planet.
All in all I can understand the point that article is getting at. It's why I much prefer getting clothing from local retailers. There's less of a demand to emulate the major fashion retailers. (Also supporting local businesses are always a plus for me :thumbs:)
That's my two or three cents on the matter, at least.
I love urban planet. <3
Also thank you so much for your input. I'm curious about your line of work, and your goal of running your own business and having your own label.
I've often toyed with the idea of making my own clothing for myself, but unfortunately even the most basic bland cotton bolts from fabric land are loads more expensive than buying your t-shirts from Walmart. :'( So the only things I've ever sewn myself are a couple pj bottoms and boxer shorts.
Anyways I'd love to see some of your ideas, if you can trust me. Hear about your inspiration and where you'd like to see the apparel industry go in the near future. :3
Vancouver would benefit from a Japanese-originated chain of clothing stores called "Uniqlo" - sucks that it's expanded out to HK, London, and the states, but not up into Canada. -.-
They sell colourful "casual attire", as quoted.
http://www.uniqlo.com/us/ (http://www.uniqlo.com/us/)
It looks like H&M's crap. Only with slightly more dolly models and slightly less pretentious advertising.
: Tef January 08, 2012, 05:22:01 -07:00
Vancouver would benefit from a Japanese-originated chain of clothing stores called "Uniqlo" - sucks that it's expanded out to HK, London, and the states, but not up into Canada. -.-
They sell colourful "casual attire", as quoted.
http://www.uniqlo.com/us/ (http://www.uniqlo.com/us/)
I must be honest with you, their current lines are just as bland and dull as everything else right now. ??? Unless I'm missing something, most of what I see is here is more gray, black and navy.
edit: Also they make flannel plaid shirts! Ew! :o
I always love the people they use to model clothing for distributors and designers like this. They all totally look like they are the working-class citizens that keep the world turning. I could really see a steel-mill worker getting off work and heading straight to one of these places to get his weekend-wear. =P
The real reason there's so much black, grey, and beige?
because designers are losing their minds.
(http://www.eatliver.com/img/2011/7837.jpg)
trololololol! ok i'm done.
: Renwaldo January 07, 2012, 07:06:07 -07:00
I love urban planet. <3
Also thank you so much for your input. I'm curious about your line of work, and your goal of running your own business and having your own label.
I've often toyed with the idea of making my own clothing for myself, but unfortunately even the most basic bland cotton bolts from fabric land are loads more expensive than buying your t-shirts from Walmart. :'( So the only things I've ever sewn myself are a couple pj bottoms and boxer shorts.
Anyways I'd love to see some of your ideas, if you can trust me. Hear about your inspiration and where you'd like to see the apparel industry go in the near future. :3
Well, I'm still in school, as it is, studying for a fashion design degree, so running my own business is very far in the future, but it's a dream of mine haha.
If you want very cheap fabric, shop at Dress Sew downtown. They have pretty much everything you'll ever need, and you can find super cheap fabric (also if you're into making fursuits, they have a massive section of faux fur in the corner of the store, all kinds of colours, piles and lengths).
I'd love to see a revival of the rainbow explosion from about 4 or 5 years back, to be perfectly honest. I remember Urban Planet literally selling jeans in every colour imaginable. But I'm a neon-loving fag so I would like that >w>
I'd also like to make a comment regarding the models used to display clothing. It's a sad fact, but it's the truth (doesn't mean it's right, but as it is, this is how the industry works). Clothing looks better on a taller, slimmer figure. Hell, most of the models used in ads for clothing are photoshopped afterwards so they're one or two heads taller than they actually are. When doing an illustration in the fashion world, the figure used is 1-2 heads taller (the ankles are extended). It has to do with the current mindset of the industry, and what society pictures as an "ideal" specimen. Things in the apparel world don't get moving unless a major house makes the first move, usually. So, when Chanel and Gucci start using 5'7' models for their clothing, with a build that more closely resembles how people /actually/ look, then you'll see it start to happen. But as it is, tall, thin models will be the standard. I'd actually like my label (if I ever start one, that is) to have clothing that a real person can fit into (not to say I won't make really weird clothing, but it will fit all sizes >:3)
: Tef January 08, 2012, 05:22:01 -07:00
Vancouver would benefit from a Japanese-originated chain of clothing stores called "Uniqlo" - sucks that it's expanded out to HK, London, and the states, but not up into Canada. -.-
They sell colourful "casual attire", as quoted.
http://www.uniqlo.com/us/ (http://www.uniqlo.com/us/)
Forget fashion, we could use the Japaneese version of cars! im tired of "Americanized" Japanese cars, IE fat gutless versions. But I am a car guy, not a fashion guy lol
: Renwaldo January 08, 2012, 09:59:30 -07:00
I must be honest with you, their current lines are just as bland and dull as everything else right now. ??? Unless I'm missing something, most of what I see is here is more gray, black and navy.
edit: Also they make flannel plaid shirts! Ew! :o
If color is what you want just shop outside your normal preferred chain stores. Contrary to popular belief, its still possible to find colorful stuff out there. :monocle:
Flannel? Meh, not my thing but W/E... I am gonna piss myself laughing when that "makes a comeback" and all the fashion conscience are wearing it as more hipster attire lol. Might not be soon, but I am pretty sure some day...
I like the way I dress ;3
: Drake Wingfire January 09, 2012, 08:56:07 -07:00
Forget fashion, we could use the Japaneese version of cars! im tired of "Americanized" Japanese cars, IE fat gutless versions. But I am a car guy, not a fashion guy lol
I am a car guy talking about fashion. ;D
I like to have a certain amount of funk in my clothing, so I just sort of go on how and what I'm feeling. I have a lot of loud colours (orange button-up shirts, some paisley patterns I've found in thrift shops, a yellow patterned button up that looks like a 70s era table cloth, etc), which I usually pair with jeans or khakis. I like the dark brown or green khakis though, not the plain beige old man pants. Also, not that I own any at the moment, but I absolutely love corduroy pants. I used to have a burnt orange corduroy pant that was fantastic. I lost it when I moved.
I have a native charm necklace that I wear (given to me by my partner) most days, and then I either wear a brown leather duster or one of my myriad of sport/dinner coats as a jacket (right now I have a camel coloured one on). My plaid scarf (McDonald clan, part of my heritage), and one of a bunch of hats (I have a top hat, a brown fedora, or a checker pattern newspaper boy's hat, the last of which has little pin with Pinkie Pie's cutie mark on it).
I should mention my hair is presently bleach tipped a few inches too. What started as a head of short orange hair has faded and grown out, and I like it so I've kept it.
How's that for a disaster? :) I love my style.
Disaster? I'm sure you are gorgeous sir. :-*
I'm something of a whore for paisley myself.
I really find this thred a bit of a joke, I wear what I feel most comfortable in. I dont care about fashion and I dont have allot of money to spend on it, I think I have ONE American Eagle shirt, and one pair of pants, most of my pants are a couple years old and the new ones are from value village. I like black and dark browns I suppose cuz they are a little more flattering and but really cuz I CANNOT wear white lol every single white shirt I have is stained sooooo I just stopped buying them. All in all anyone that tells me that my clothes are boring or "mundane" can stuff it cuz I dont care.
Pulled this quote from another thread, and felt like it fit better here:
: xeneros January 16, 2012, 11:47:35 -07:00
Nothing is considered "in style" and so as a result people lower their standards
See, I don't understand this whole concept of "in style." So if I buy "stylish" clothes in 2009, does that mean I can't wear them in 2012 if it's not "in style?" Do I just throw out perfectly good clothes? And "standards." Hahaha wow, how that word pisses me off in this context. So... if I set my standards to be: "White people are cool and black people are not," does that mean I have high standards? And don't try to argue, "oh that's totally different, you're comparing human beings instead of fashion,"
you ARE comparing human beings in the context of fashion. It's the exact same argument:
"This guy is darker skinned than me. I'm not going to talk to him because he's obviously from some savage tribe straight out of Africa."
as compared to:
"This guy is wearing unfashionable clothing. Let's not talk to him because he's obviously an imbecile to be wearing this trash."
Standards work well when applied to things with functionality. See, I buy Columbia brand outdoor clothing instead of Firefly because I know they are tried, tested and true in extreme outdoor conditions and my Columbia snowboard jacket has never let me down on the slopes. I stay dry and warm and I couldn't give less of a fuck what it looks like. I buy New Balance cross-trainers because they make the only shoe that I've been able to comfortably wear until they literally fall off my feet, as opposed to that Nike garbage, which is hugely overpriced and the soles de-laminate after 6 months of casual use.
As humans, we are cursed to judge each other without even realizing we're doing it. The least we can do is TRY to avoid doing it by not giving a shit about petty trivialities like what other people wear.
*rubs temples* -_-;
Alright boys.
First of all what the fuck are you doing here if you don't care for fashion? :-\ Coming in here and bitching about the topic is the equivalent of going into the vatican and proclaiming quite loudly that you are homosexual. The outcome is similar. I don't come into your car threads and carry on about how all cars are the same and obsessing over automobiles is a completely pointless hobby. We don't need a variety in cars! The world would hardly go to hell if everyone drove the same thing!
Secondly passing judgements on race is wrong because your genetics are not something you try on for size and buy at your local clothing store. Therein the difference lies. You don't pop out of your mother's vagina with all your tastes in clothing preset either.
You seem quite disturbed about this whole aspect of judgment. Really it's such a small part of this topic it's nothing to get "pissed off" about.
Good clothing doesn't go out of style in 3 years, as a general rule it's 5 years. If you're a smart consumer you'll have bought pieces that won't wear out in 10 years. Even then things always come back. Who says you have to throw out perfectly good clothing in 3 years? Half of the jeans I own are from 2005 after my last big growth spurt! They're still very much in style! :roll:
: Renwaldo January 17, 2012, 09:59:13 -07:00
Secondly passing judgements on race is wrong because your genetics are not something you try on for size and buy at your local clothing store. Therein the difference lies. You don't pop out of your mother's vagina with all your tastes in clothing preset either.
You seem quite disturbed about this whole aspect of judgment. Really it's such a small part of this topic it's nothing to get "pissed off" about.
Good clothing doesn't go out of style in 3 years, as a general rule it's 5 years. If you're a smart consumer you'll have bought pieces that won't wear out in 10 years. Even then things always come back. Who says you have to throw out perfectly good clothing in 3 years? Half of the jeans I own are from 2005 after my last big growth spurt! They're still very much in style! :roll:
Well this being a forum and all one should expect difference of opinions good or bad..
But still I think you missed their point that good looking clothes are not everything. Most people usually buy something they like that works and wear it till it starts to fall apart, they don't buy something they like, wear it for a few years then throw it into the closet till it "makes a comeback". The racism comparison was all about the similarities of judging someone by what they look like (skin color or clothing tastes) instead of who they are both are shallow no matter how ya slice it. Its really just the fashion above all mentality that people have that many of us don't like.
: Renwaldo January 17, 2012, 09:59:13 -07:00
First of all what the fuck are you doing here if you don't care for fashion? :-\ Coming in here and bitching about the topic is the equivalent of going into the vatican and proclaiming quite loudly that you are homosexual. The outcome is similar. I don't come into your car threads and carry on about how all cars are the same and obsessing over automobiles is a completely pointless hobby. We don't need a variety in cars! The world would hardly go to hell if everyone drove the same thing!
Well, I tried to keep my opinions objective, but someone had to go and take it personally...
You posted an article. Then you sparked a discussion. Most discussions involve some form of debate, and all debates carry two sides: those for, and those against. You chose your side, I chose mine. I chose to not lash out at anyone and simply state my views. I am not "bitching" about anything; I actually like to think I offered-up at least SOME level of intellect in my debate. I have my reasons for disagreeing with the topic and I have no trouble in sharing them.
Secondly passing judgements on race is wrong because your genetics are not something you try on for size and buy at your local clothing store. Therein the difference lies. You don't pop out of your mother's vagina with all your tastes in clothing preset either. You seem quite disturbed about this whole aspect of judgment. Really it's such a small part of this topic it's nothing to get "pissed off" about.
Fashion is all about judgment! Holy crap! If it wasn't, it wouldn't be FASHION. We all judge the clothes we buy based on our own sets of criteria. Price. Quality. Colour. The only difference with fashion is that you're now buying it based on a predetermined set of criteria set by some... fuck... I don't even KNOW who determines this shit. Some fruity French designer living in Beverly Hills with a mojito in one hand and a cigarette in the other. Is there, like, a committee for it? Does the government have a Bureau of National Fashion?
Passing judgments on any physical trait of a person is wrong no matter what way you look at it. I treat any judgment of a person's physical appearance as belittling and pathetic. Racism, fashion standards and judging someone based on the number of teeth they have are all equally needless and condemned in my mind.
And you're right: we are not born with fashion tastes built into our genes. Those are developed as we age and as we are exposed to different aspects of society, the same way racism is. Social conditioning makes us into what we are. The same social conditioning that convinces some people to hate other races also convinces some people that the clothes we wear define who we are. I'm not saying that society makes us racist; it is our individual upbringing and exposure that determines a person's perception of ethnicity, just the same as another person's microcosm might expose them to what we call "fashion sense."
But seriously man. If you don't want to have people stating their views and beliefs to bring a healthy debate into a discussion, you might as well stop having discussions posted so publicly, in a board that is titled "General Board." Either that, or everyone will need to start adding, "NEOX CAN'T REPLY," tagged on the ends of their posts so I know that if I do reply, someone is gonna get butthurt over what I might say.
I quite welcome your difference in perspectives, but I feel like you're missing the whole point of what I wanted to discuss. ??? This thread is turning into, "Fashion is pointless, and people who wear nice things are judgemental twats."
Neo what you're thinking of is purely the marketing aspect of the industry. Fashion is a business like any other, but it is also an art-form. While much of it is so cheaply as you put it (unfortunately) the business side of things is not all encompassing.
I for one try to maintain fashionable appearances, I would never wear something purely because "Some fruity French designer living in Beverly Hills with a mojito in one hand and a cigarette in the other" says I should.
Which brings us back to the original topic in fact. The fruity mojito guzzling francophone designers in Beverly Hills have slapped together a hodge-podge of washed out woollen plaids in their winter collection this past year and I am not impressed with it.
When I made this thread I was hoping to hear your thoughts on that. Not mock the entire industry and all those in it!
Fashion is entertainment. It has no other purpose if that's what you're trying to say. Some of us like to get dressed up simply because we enjoy the attention. Dare I say it, it's a big old circle jerk-off session and I am proud to take part in it. I have fashion sense. Yes I judge people based on their appearances, haters gonna hate! :birdy:
Really it isn't so much negative judgements so much as catering to curiosity. I see a person with a unique outfit, and I try to guess their hobbies, their taste in other art forms like music, I wonder where it is their heading to, I wonder what they're like before I have the chance to speak to them. When I get dressed up I take into account these questions, and what I want people to think about me. For example, perhaps I want people to assume I'm some badass delinquent who drinks like a fish and smokes like a chimney, on his way to slap some nasty hoes at some alternative rock concert. I'll don an outfit I judge someone like that might wear. 8) The context of who I really am and what I'm really dressing up for isn't the point. It's all about how we want to be judged, not what negative conclusions people will draw from our clothes if we're wearing the wrong thing.
Of course I do not have the entirety of one's character figured out on the first glance! That would be a little prejudiced - as you've said. Taking into account their clothing is just the first step, it certainly isn't the most telling one either.
Lastly, on a semi-related note, It's true that a large part of fashion is aesthetic, but it isn't the only part. Clothing must be practical as well. There's a very good reason you don't see everyone wearing haute couture out on the streets. A proper outfit suits the situation and serves a purpose. Look at uniforms and sportswear, somebody still had to design those. The uniform I wear to work isn't what I would call attractive, but those clothes are still an important part of the industry. My company tries to make us appear 'conservative, professional and approachable' They deck us out in black dress slack, white collared shirts, black ties, and emerald aprons.
The fashion industry isn't a monster that turns people into snot-nosed brats.
You're thinking of the entertainment industry. :monocle:
People who wear nice things are NOT judgmental twats, people who make assumptions about people based on what they wear are the judgmental twats. The whole debate thus far has pretty much been that. People are not hatin because some people like to go out and shop "trendy" its the fact that when people go "trendy" they tend to grow this huge complex over the clothes they wear. They simply can't dress nice and feel good about themselves, they gotta make it a point to flaunt it about like a teenage girl who's breasts just developed. They gotta start dissing on what everyone else wears so they can feel even more pseudo important. Surprisingly (sarcasm) this comes off to most people as just being a twat and having a bad superiority complex.
The fact "fashionable" people are not satisfied unless they are trying to sound trendy and important over the choice of stitched cloth they drape on their ass says a lot about them indeed.
Call me a liar, but I have never met anyone like that. Ever, not even in highschool. :-\
The most well dressed people don't follow trends, they set their own. People follow them because they admire the person behind the outfit. Nobody wants to dress like that snooty bitch everyone knows and hates.
Of course the same can't be said for the influential rich and famous. Take people like Nikki Manaj for example, she's a total cunt. She has her own little flock and fan base of wannabe bitches who try to copy her every look. She's the cookie cutter diva, one of several hundred. They're an expendable plague on the art, and exist solely to leech the money out of rebellious young people.
However I'd like to think of myself partially responsible to change that view. :gay: There's another whole side of the industry of regular people of various ages, cultural backgrounds, and income levels who maintain their very own trends. Fashion isn't about wearing what you're expected to and looking down upon everyone who doesn't conform. :monocle: It's about expressing artistic inspiration in wearing clothes.
Nobody is calling anybody a liar here. Let's try to keep this civil.
From the O.P.:
Now what are your thoughts ladies and gentlemen? Do you agree with her? Are we really no more fashionable than a bunch of midwest townies in this cosmopolitan city?
I still feel like this discussion is on-topic with this question, unless you were simply looking for a "yes" or "no" answer to your original question. I'm sorry if you feel we've digressed, but I'm going to continue.
I can appreciate that you're trying to find the lighter points in your side of the topic, but I plain and simple cannot see them, or they make no sense to me. I simply cannot wrap my head around how it can be okay to take a glance at what someone is wearing and attempt to have even the faintest idea of who they are as a person. Like... I went to Sin City a few nights ago. Everyone was dressed up in fetish gear and really kinky stuff. Now, how many of those people do you think wear the same stuff (or anything even remotely similar in tastes) during their day jobs? If you met any one of those people on the street as they headed to the office, briefcase in hand, snappy suit and tie, could you even guess that this person would be the type to go to a party like that?
I agree with you that fashion is an art form. The only problem with it is that people actually USE it to make opinions of others. Look at the featured submission in my FA gallery. It's pretty dark, twisted and evil. If you judged me based on my image, you'd never know that I'm far from actually living the life of the person you "see" in that image. I like to think I'm chivalrous, kind and fun to be around 364 days out of the year, but you'd never know that unless you got to know me. I can look at a person and appreciate the combination of clothing they're wearing as artistic expression, but I NEVER make assumptions of that individual's personality based on that.
: Renwaldo January 17, 2012, 11:52:50 -07:00
For example, perhaps I want people to assume I'm some badass delinquent who drinks like a fish and smokes like a chimney, on his way to slap some nasty hoes at some alternative rock concert. I'll don an outfit I judge someone like that might wear.
Some could say that I dress almost EXACTLY like what you'd expect that kind of person to wear all the time. Again, here's that social conditioning I was talking about, how we're all brought up learning "this is what a person like THAT should be wearing/look like." I wear "wife beater" shirts almost every day, tattered jeans that are, like, as old as my waist-size and height have permitted me to be wearing them, steel-toe work boots and I've got piercings up the wazoo (not... literally x.=.x). I'm fully aware that if someone with a "fashionable" mind takes a look at me, they gauge that I'm probably a redneck piece of shit who is trying to pass off as a rocker, have the IQ of a garden hose, the vocabulary of a gangster-rap "artist," and the temper of a really thirsty alcoholic. The truth is, yes, I am a little more rough around the edges than most, but I'm NOT an inbred hillbilly, I actually AM somewhat smart (in terms of academics and the like), and I'm as friendly as that gay purple dinosaur they had on TV when I was a kid. If everyone went around judging me based on my looks, I wouldn't have any of the awesome friends I have today because everyone would have been scared off by me. Plain and simple.
I'm sorry that you interpreted my debate as hostility. I get just as passionate for expressing my opinion on a discussion like this as you probably do; I just tend to word my phrases quite strongly.
Neo Fashion is a malleable thing. If you'd rather change how your outfit is perceived by judgemental twats (rather than changing your outfit to effect the perception of your character) then just keep doing whatever it is you do. :monocle: The perception of those pesky judgemental francophone alcoholic designers is very easy to influence. They've been in business for so long they don't know the meaning of inspiration, so they look to the common people for ideas.
I suppose I don't see it as a bad thing that people may assume things about me from my attire. I see it as an opportunity to look like something I'm not, something better. If everyone knew from the first glance I work for minimum wage in retail and still lived with my parents I wouldn't be given many chances to make new friends. At least by dressing properly I can look interesting if nothing else.
When I worked minimum wage jobs and lived with my parents I dressed like.... an average guy? I wasn't aware there was "minimum wage, living with parents attire"
Do the sleeves read "9.50 an hour baby!" ? lol :D I personally think most people are only attuned to see someone as poor if they are wearing something that's torn or worn out, not really whats relative to fashion. You could wear all the sweaters and pants you love from like 2001 and I don't think anyone would honestly notice unless they had holes in them and were falling apart.
I worked as a computer tech for a good long while and I still dressed like I always do, I didn't want to dress fancy or dress the part because I feel it creates an un-realistic image of who I am kind of a "all talk and no show" situation (not to be confused with dressing like a slob as I still dressed appropriate, just not hoitey toitey). But its in my nature to put accomplishments before anything else, if anything for the dumbfounded look that people get when someone they assume is "some whippersnapper" just pulls out all the stops and slaughters their poor judgment right before their very eyes, I find its more important to break stereotypes rather than just dress to try and ignore it if that makes sense. (besides, I wont lie, I feel a smug sense of satisfaction when someone assumes I am just another "kid" and I blow them out of the water with what I truly know, especially in regards to cars and computers. Because that means I pretty much slapped them in the face with their own pre-judgement. Perhaps a very passive aggressive way of showing them why judging like that is wrong in the first place.)
You know Renwaldo what you are saying now is some what hypocritical of your original post, the name of this thred is (the mundane attire of Vancouverites) that right there is a judgment what if people like what they wear its only mundane because you say it is not because it is.
Your preaching that its about expression and stuff but that sort of defeats the purpose to this thred then dosnt it.
Icey, the clothes that came out this past autumn/winter were mundane. It's as if the new big trend this season was to dress down and blend in. I did not make this fact up, I'm only agreeing with and restating what many local professionals have already wrote about. :-\
I most certainly am not preaching. If I were, I'd kick the three of you out for refusing to sway opinion. Isn't that what preachers do? :monocle:
Im pretty sure his point was that just because one or a few people "Expert" or not think its mundane doesn't automatically mean it is. But this can apply to everything due to people having different tastes. Just people forget that there is no "right" taste because its all subjective.
Saying fashion is expression then imply how most people dress is gaudy and out-of-style is what was being called hypocritical because of the implication only ONE form of expression is the "right" one, then couldn't it be argued that that's not expression at all but ironically its its own form of conformity being dressed up as being unique? Someone could just as easily say how you dress is gaudy and bizarre.
: Drake Wingfire January 18, 2012, 11:38:57 -07:00
Im pretty sure his point was that just because one or a few people "Expert" or not think its mundane doesn't automatically mean it is.
Perhaps not, but at least look at what the major houses sold this past season before disagreeing with me. There's no denying there is sickening excessive use of neutral colours and plain patterns. Apparently around here more so than other major cities. Should I have chosen a more appropriate word other than 'mundane'?
http://www.ae.com/web/index.jsp (http://www.ae.com/web/index.jsp)
http://www.hm.com/ca/ (http://www.hm.com/ca/)
http://www.lechateau.com/style/index.jsp (http://www.lechateau.com/style/index.jsp)
http://store.americanapparel.ca/men.html (http://store.americanapparel.ca/men.html)
http://www.dkny.com/ (http://www.dkny.com/)
: Drake Wingfire January 18, 2012, 11:38:57 -07:00
But this can apply to everything due to people having different tastes. Just people forget that there is no "right" taste because its all subjective.
Quite. However this is not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. The direction major name brands chose to take this winter was to backtrack to their past and most basic designs. There didn't appear to be anything 'new' this season. Everything was a rehash of something already done before, brought down a couple levels and washed out.
If I'm mistaken please prove me wrong, because I would love to know where I can get some well made 'interesting' winter clothes. ???
: Drake Wingfire January 18, 2012, 11:38:57 -07:00
Saying fashion is expression then imply how most people dress is gaudy and out-of-style is what was being called hypocritical because of the implication only ONE form of expression is the "right" one, then couldn't it be argued that that's not expression at all but ironically its its own form of conformity being dressed up as being unique? Someone could just as easily say how you dress is gaudy and bizarre.
I'm not saying any of this is gaudy nor out of style, this stuff's just boring. I know I'm not the only one who believes this. However if anybody disagrees I'm very interested in their opinions, if I thought everyone thought the same as me I wouldn't have made this thread. That would hardly make for much of a discussion. I would love for somebody to write, "Ren, you're wrong! This [insert designer]'s winter collection was revolutionary this year! Check out their product!" to spark a bit of debate. I'm still waiting. :-\
I merely feel the need to correct you because this discussion was heading in the wrong direction.
I am not interested in discussing, explaining or defending the morals (or lack thereof) of the fashion industry anymore.
Well, if it helps to aim closer to your topic:
When I think of Vancouver, I don't think of fashion. When I think of New York City, I think of people who actually pay attention to fashion. Vancouver makes me think of multicultural city night life and outdoorsy activities. I've never been to New York, but a lot of the stuff I've heard about it from others is how it's a trendy, bustling city of business, commerce and daytime activity. I go to Vancouver to party, drink, watch the Canucks, hit-up some hiking trails in the surrounding areas, or attend some sort of concert. In my mind, fashion has little place in Vancouver simply because majority its residents aren't the type to care about it. I know a LOT of my friends who currently live in Van originally grew up in the countryside, and they are not of the fashion-geared mentality.
That would explain why we're plagued with Lulu Lemon and plaid. :-\
Did ya once stop to think that maybe what you find mundane is here because its actually selling well? Even if its all rehashing it just means the designers finally hit that little niche where it fits the majority of people, which means they can make money, so of course they are gonna keep pumping it out, who on earth would find a gravy train and go "no, that's just not how it is, I won't accept this" the fashion industry is like everything else, you want to have mass appeal for mass profits otherwise you just are making sure your company's profit starts to decline.
The only thing that's really fact is that all these "rehashes" have become whats in style and the writer of the original news article is too blind to see it. For example, I love Honda cars... now I can go around to all sorts of people going "you drive that POS? UUUGH GAG!" and so on, then wonder why no one is into what (in my opinion) is a "great" car. But really I would just be missing the point that maybe people want a more affordable base commuter car/ SUV, maybe that's just the trend of this decade, it doesn't make them not car-conscience, they are simply putting practicality first.
: Renwaldo January 18, 2012, 08:38:33 -07:00
It's as if the new big trend this season was to dress down and blend in.
The concept of blending in with mundane folk has been a style favourably worn by many people in recent seasons. In my opinion, topics like the recession has pushed folk away from from "fun" and "crazy" activities, into more standard fare of working a day job and doing average tasks; thus their clothing changes to match a banal style. Other people will also dress this way to match the fashion of their peers. So seeing majour outlets release drab clothing in the winter season, seems to match the times.
: Naetholix January 19, 2012, 05:09:24 -07:00
Vancouver makes me think of multicultural city night life and outdoorsy activities.
So look for stores that serve those fields. All of the clothes I've bought in Vancouver, have come from sporting good stores. There can be some really nice items in them! You don't have to go in looking for sports clothing: most will stock T-shirts, and I've seen nice items like diner jackets in sports good stores, too.
Personally, I raved while it was alive. So a good portion of my style features the Tripp New York City style: Bellbottoms, with a mesh top, or T-shirt. Otherwise, the clothes I own come from my home town, Vancouver sport shops, Toronto boutiques (Check out [Futurstate (V-Day promotion!) and Fairies Pajamas (now in B.C.!)), and German bondage shops. Also: some of my favourite clothes have been given to me by homeless people on the street (sometimes they have really cool clothes, okay; it's not that weird!! D:)
Vancouver faces problems for fashion expression. The big issue being the level of rain the city gets. You can wear all the exciting, personalized clothes you want, but you'll still have to throw a big rainjacket over the whole thing when you go anywhere people will see you. Really puts a damper on artistic expression through fashion. :/