So in my previous topic, I talked a lot about how being furry comes with being an otherkin for me. I think it's kinda hard to be an otherkin without being a furry, but it's entirely possible to be a furry without stepping anywhere near otherkin beliefs.
So in case you're wondering, "What the hell is an otherkin?" I'll spare you the wikipedia search and just give you the quick and dirty:
Traditionally, describing oneself as an otherkin is to claim that, although we all possess human forms in this life, beneath one's flesh and bone that person is NOT human... typically he/she is the spirit of an animal/creature/mythological being "trapped" inside a human body. Some people cling to beliefs of a past-life where he/she was this alternate being; some people cling to beliefs of an afterlife where he/she becomes that being after death. Some people claim all sorts of bizarre traits, like focusing hours and hours of meditation on attempting to one day be able to transform into their "true" body; astral projecting their spirit into a realm where they interact with other otherkin for a short time as their "true" forms...
Now here is MY own personal explanation of what being an otherkin means to ME:
Neox is essentially a physical manifestation of my affinity to the grand mythological creatures we call "dragons." It is as if to say, "if my personality were to be crafted into a new physical form, THIS is what it would look like." I do not claim to be a dragon "trapped" inside a human body. I am a human. This I make no attempt to deny, and I'm perfectly okay with it. This is as "true" of a form as I'm ever going to get, because this is simply what I AM. But in spirit--less in a metaphysical sense and more in the sense of a deep heartfelt existence--it feels like Neox is as much a part of me as it is to be human. He is NOT some alter-ego that surfaces as a second personality. He is NOT a spirit-guide or an avatar. He is NOT something I live vicariously through because I feel weak and small in a human body (anyone who's actually MET me can tell you that my ego could use a bit of a hair-cut now and again). He is an expression of how I see myself outside of my physical body. He is a representation of my personality minus the limits presented by being human.
It is very difficult to explain, especially verbally, without a few minutes to gather my thoughts on it. I tend to contradict myself a bit, because it's hard to explain how you feel like something you physically aren't, while claiming to NOT accept the traditional otherkin belief of being "trapped" in a human body.
Oh, and IT'S NOT A RELIGION.
Ten years ago, I drew a dragon on a piece of paper at school. While I was drawing it, in the back of my head, I was formulating what this dragon would look like if it was myself transformed. When I finished it, I looked at it and saw myself on the page. It was a connection that remains to this day, and that dragon has evolved countless times as I have grown, and it will continue to change as I do.
You may also notice that Neox is not you're typical dragon. He possesses no magical abilities and the only "breath-attack" he has is the power to yell a lot and swear his head off. He can fly, but only because his wings are fucking huge enough to be able to lift his stupid scaly ass off the ground. I try to keep Neox as close to the ground as possible, because that's just how I am. I don't feel like he should have the ability to incinerate a town with fire-breathing abilities; I don't fancy him being able to read peoples' minds or make dead flora suddenly turn green and alive as he walks by. I don't feel the need to be all-powerful and that's the way I like to draw Neox. I'm very careful to not make it look like I'm compensating for being a weak, pathetic, simple-minded human. o.=.o; (2 the Ranting Gryphon reference, if anyone gets it.)
So that's my two cents on the matter. I may come back and modify my original statement, but for the most part, this is where it's at.
I know there are more otherkin here, on BCF, and I would absolutely love if they could post their own explanations for their own beliefs. Or even if you're not an otherkin, and you simply want to ask questions, please feel free. It's kinda obvious that I barely know what my own beliefs are, and sometimes answering peoples' questions really helps me explain it better. =)
Me and Morrogh fall into the Otherkin/ Draconic category at least in our own ways, though like they say, spirituality varies from person to person, if they were all the same it would be a religion hahaha
Some of the points you mentioned ring an all too familiar tune with me so I can't really add much there. Like you I created this outwards personification of myself while I was on a huge dragon bend, soon realizing that this dragon was pretty much just living out a fantasy life that I wish I could live. He was pretty much me if I had even less tact and 5 times the balls. So upon discovering that and the Otherkin community I adopted the identity since it pretty much already was me.
At first the personality's were about as opposite as one could get, me IRL I was a very shy quiet guy who only ever stirred anything when he was pushed to his limits I was extremely introverted (heck even still as a bit when you first met me around 08). But the dragon personification of myself was this care free eccentric pervert. As time went on I started to integrate those traits into myself, I used my own spirituality as a way to help improve my day to day human self and slowly the two identity merged into just one sole identity/ personality but with two "masks". Dan; the guy I always have been and Drake; the embodiment of how I feel myself to be. I feel a lot more "together" like I know who I am deep down.
I really carry no "deep" spirituality, if asked I could sum up who I am in that respect in a minute or two. (the fact I believe myself to be a dragon spirituality has no real long winded drawn out way to be described) I never liked to over complicate something like that nor have I been one of aggressively peruse the "crystals and meditation" new-age-ism tactics to spirituality. I found myself really put off by it to be honest because when I saw people doing it all I saw was desperation for some sorta grounding "vision" so they could prance about with this inflated sense of self-worth. Spirituality is about self-discovery and growth, its not some Dragonball Z knock-off where you go "hraaaghh! my otherkin spirituality level is over 9000!" lol
My attention span must go up when I am sick cuz I actually read all of that lol.
I guess you didn't like my wiki search on the subject Neox? I didn't think you would sorta did it for a joke explanation.
I am not part of the otherkin/dragon category but I have definitely been fantasized by dragons ever since I can remember
I know you guys are going to hate me for this but the amount of times I have watched Brave Heart and Reign of Fire is ridicules.
OH and bad dragon is a fave :-3 :-3 :-3 lol :gay: :gay:
: Icey Dominus December 18, 2011, 02:02:25 -07:00
My attention span must go up when I am sick cuz I actually read all of that lol.
I guess you didn't like my wiki search on the subject Neox? I didn't think you would sorta did it for a joke explanation.
I am not part of the otherkin/dragon category but I have definitely been fantasized by dragons ever since I can remember
I know you guys are going to hate me for this but the amount of times I have watched Brave Heart and Reign of Fire is ridicules.
OH and bad dragon is a fave
*laughs* I knew you were joking and this had nothing to do with that. I simply hate the wiki definition because it tries to encompass the general otherkin category and it does a poor job of it. It goes into too much detail on the metaphysical junk like shapeshifting and all that garbage (and if you're into that, fuckin more power to ya) but it really steams me when people go to wiki and read that and get the wrong idea on what it means to be otherkin. I personally don't think the concept of otherkin is that outlandish... the everyday person generally respects my beliefs when I tell it to them as explained above. But if I showed them the wiki page, they'd probably read it and think I'm a fucking nut-job and I should be treated like a severely autistic kid.
And it's not just draconic kin, there are plenty of kin who are wolves, cats, canines, birds, etc. Dragons, for some reason, seem to make the most noise about it.
: Naetholix December 18, 2011, 03:19:17 -07:00
And it's not just draconic kin, there are plenty of kin who are wolves, cats, canines, birds, etc. Dragons, for some reason, seem to make the most noise about it.
We do not! Its not like we ..bla..bla..bla (5 hours later) .... and that's why I will never eat chocolate pudding again!
Hahah, nah, I agree, we do got the biggest percentage of "I wanna be unique!!!" otherkin. I have never minded being called a scaly, furry, dragon. To me its all the same. Why some people want to be so segregated over it boggles me, hell have you seen the sheer amount of dragon groups on FA. I read one that was from a guy starting a black dragons group, when I said "why are dragons segregating themselves from other dragons now? Are we that picky?" The only reply I got was "haha, well its mostly just for people who like black dragons" lol
Regarding the crystal waving meditating types, I steer clear of it, I have met a few who were heavy into that side of things and.. eeeeehhhhh... they are hard to socialize with, I think many of them get way too warped up in it and start to lose social skills >.=.>
Ahhh yes those types I have met them, I have also met the ones that believe they where animals in there previous life so they try to stay connected and what not. SOoooooo they eat raw meat an shit lol. Admittedly I think some of them are strange but I like what they have to say sometimes and I do believe in reincarnation.
: Icey Dominus December 18, 2011, 11:53:22 -07:00
Ahhh yes those types I have met them, I have also met the ones that believe they where animals in there previous life so they try to stay connected and what not. SOoooooo they eat raw meat an shit lol. Admittedly I think some of them are strange but I like what they have to say sometimes and I do believe in reincarnation.
Hahah, yeah like any group you will meet those real extreme, pushing the bounds types. Reincarnation is one of those things I do think about time to time.
If you do not burninate the country side, do you at least burninate the peasants? Or the Peoples... in the thatched ROOF COTTAGES!!!!
... sorry. I had to. Dragons were mentioned. Dragon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90X5NJleYJQ#)
All jokes aside, I think it's awesome how in touch you are with your inner feelings like this. I have other friends who use furry for much the same thing. One such person actually created characters (which then became fursonas) to represent each side of himself that will often argue and fight.. or play.. with each other depending on the topic at hand.
Everyone has their own definitions of what makes themselves unique. I've always felt putting a label on it is pointless. You are you, and dragon, human, other kin, therian, or furry really have no baring on that.
: Aphinity December 19, 2011, 10:02:40 -07:00
Everyone has their own definitions of what makes themselves unique. I've always felt putting a label on it is pointless. You are you, and dragon, human, other kin, therian, or furry really have no baring on that.
We all like using labels for everything, we just like to have this cemented notion that we are part of something. Gay, Bi, Straight, Furry, Mundane, Christian, Republican, Liberal, Chevy Driver, Honda Driver. Labels just make us feel more attached to the subject matter and give us this foundation to stand upon. At least when used honestly of course :)
I don't mind them when they are used to help summarize something about yourself, but I do see your point none the less. It can get out of hand and we can start slapping labels on ourselves to try and sound like we are something impressive like "I was in a school play once, I am a "professional actor"" lol/
: Icey Dominus December 18, 2011, 11:53:22 -07:00
Ahhh yes those types I have met them, I have also met the ones that believe they where animals in there previous life so they try to stay connected and what not. SOoooooo they eat raw meat an shit lol. Admittedly I think some of them are strange but I like what they have to say sometimes and I do believe in reincarnation.
I do feel like a need to defend those reincarnation "types", because there
are many sensible 'kin that believe in a more whole-heartedly spiritual 'kin
experience and yet refrain from gallivanting in the woods and eating raw
meat. Just remember that, haha. I could surely be consider the "crystal-
waving meditating" type of person, but I'm a cat with four paws on the
ground - thank you very much.
As I explained to Neo previously, my beliefs have to do with a balance of
personal choice, spiritual conditions and psychological happen-stance. To
elaborate, I believe in reincarnation *cough* and I believe that the detritus
of past lives can manifest themselves in various ways outside of the obvious.
'Kin experiences, or the profound connection persons may share with one or
more animals both "real" or "mythological", is what I consider to be one of
those ways. That said, it takes a certain type of person to become aware
that this connection is something more then an "I like dogs" situation and to
elect to utilize it as a part of one's personal identity. I believe that every
person has the potential to identify as 'kin, only that, for reasons, it may
come more easily to one individual then another.
I'm a domestic cat-kin, and this experience could be considered mainly spiritual,
to me. I don't segregate my type from me, or personify it; its just a part of me.
I would hesitate to say it takes a special kind of person to form such a connection (as this is what fuels a lot of the hate towards Kin because it makes us look elitist) I would honestly say it takes the right mind set. For some people it will naturally be harder than others due to the vast barriers they put up, I know this one all too well thanks to being so put off by the religious sect minded kin I met nearly a decade ago, put me off so much I spent a vast sum of time separating myself from that identity and only in recent years started to openly identify as a Dragon Kin again but still making it a point to keep myself from the religious mindset that certain other kin communities have. (meaning I like to find my own path and won't be frequenting any "kin only" boards) That and to put it simply, Furries changed me for keeps. I could never leave such an open, crazy community like this, its too fun. :birdy:
I once found it impossible to grasp the notion of these energies and connections, that was because I was a real strong grounded "logic or no way" kinda guy, with such a mindset everything that you think, everything that can't be explained in some scientific term gets dismissed simply cause I could not find a logical explanation behind it. But I like to think myself a very open minded individual and it was only by that, that I was able to break down those walls that I had put up to confine myself to the norm of "if I cant see it I don't believe it" But it also took the help of a very old friend of mine to even help me see how big those walls were, if it wasn't for her making me realize that I was repressing who I was with how I acted, I could only imagine how different the situation would be for me right now.
: Drake Wingfire January 30, 2012, 10:55:58 -07:00
I would hesitate to say it takes a special kind of person to form such a connection (as this is what fuels a lot of the hate towards Kin because it makes us look elitist) I would honestly say it takes the right mind set.
I think it does, in some ways. At the risk of sounding elitist: I whole-heartedly believe that we are who we are because of our retention of our imaginations at an age in life when it is made aware to us that imagination is useless in the modern working world (or so society would like us to think). That, in itself, narrows the potential down to a percentage of the population. I, for one, believe imagination is something far more than just the ability to create fantastical images in one's mind, as long as a person possesses the intelligence to segregate pure fantasy from reality. The combination of imagination and intellect allows a person to explore spirituality and fantasy with a more scientific outlook geared towards understanding oneself. I think this is what gives us otherkinism/therianthropy.
The reason we sound so "elitist" is because most furries are into fur-fandom for the good-natured fun and roleplay. Some people see us, and how we take our perception of things otherwise seen as fiction under a more serious, scrutinizing light for ourselves, and think we view ourselves as higher than them. Another part of it is how the ACTUAL elitist otherkin created a community all unto themselves and segregated their little group from the furries, claiming that furries are just posers and "true" otherkin don't associate with them. I hate that shit, and how the draconic community seems to be the worst for it. I hope someone "accidentally" sells them crystals of pure radium which they wear around their necks to contain their dragon souls and focus their draconic power. Hehe. Who knows? They may even transform into their dragon forms (with a couple extra limbs and eyeballs just for shits and giggles.)
Fuck it, man. I love being a furry as much as I love believing that I could be a dragon at heart. I think being furry and being otherkin are way too close in comparison to be able to separate the two.
I wasn't arguing anything about Furries VS Otherkin. What you said in your first paragraph there is what I was getting at. Its all in how you manage to not let your mind be shaken by the pressures to conform to the norm and give up what you beleive. Where as many kin seem to regard that trait as something one is simply born with. The later leaves the barn door open to these comparisons where people who discovered their identity early on are seen as superior to those who came into it later (say early 20s) its the very segregated mind set that people hate so much. I have told many close fur friends about my spirituality with not even a trace of negativity and I feel that's because I approach the manner in a more lighter toned and personable way. If one just comes in and goes "Im a dragon for real, deal with it bro" naturally everyone is gonna go "the fuck?"
I know not everyone will understand or even care to understand but I feel with the responses I have gotten on the issue hold a lesson to be learned, its all in the delivery. But let me just back it up and say that the vast majority of furs who had a negative veiw more often than not summed it up with said kin being rather anti-social and coming off as a bit of a cold snub. I can speak from experience here as in my Draconic.com days I did meet a good few who would not give you the time of day unless you could "impress" them with a past life story or vast gobbing off about meditation. That is what really comes off as elitist because they have so horribly isolated themselves when in fact you can be spiritual and not be a social alien at the same time.
*ahem* We do not talk about draconic.com here. o.=.o Thou shalt speaketh naught of the Site that Must Not be Named.
: Drake Wingfire January 30, 2012, 10:55:58 -07:00
I would hesitate to say it takes a special kind of person to form such a connection (as this is what fuels a lot of the hate towards Kin because it makes us look elitist) I would honestly say it takes the right mind set.
Perhaps "special" wasn't the right choice of wording on my part, I didn't
mean to indicate elite-ism. I was trying to make the exact same point you
went on to do. By saying "special" I meant to say it seems to take a very
certain type of person with a very certain type of mindset to pursue this
aforementioned connection and then begin to refer to some integral personal
part of them as respectfully "non-human". The average Joe tends to look
at this type of thinking as "imaginary" or "nutty"; if I can lean on my experience
here. As Neo inserts, it may be closely connected with the retention of ones'
imagination; I can agree that's probably part of it.
: Naetholix January 30, 2012, 02:14:41 -07:00Another part of it is how the ACTUAL elitist otherkin created a community all unto themselves and segregated their little group from the furries, claiming that furries are just posers and "true" otherkin don't associate with them.
: Naetholix January 31, 2012, 05:20:44 -07:00
*ahem* We do not talk about draconic.com here. o.=.o Thou shalt speaketh naught of the Site that Must Not be Named.
Um-hum, did you both get your otherkin educations through Draconic? Because
you both seem to think of the majority of 'kinfolk in an absolutely terrible light, haha.
They're not all elitists out to bastardize the concept or conform it into some segregated
cult or religion. (Though I will acknowledge it was done in the past but remind that it
has long since fallen apart.) You both need to go drag your scaly behinds to the Werelist
and remember to take EVERYTHING in this community with a grain of salt. Just because
some idiot screams the loudest, doesn't mean he stands for the majority of the community.
You're furries for gosh sakes, you should know that well enough by now. Tsk-tsk.
: Naetholix January 31, 2012, 05:20:44 -07:00
*ahem* We do not talk about draconic.com here. o.=.o Thou shalt speaketh naught of the Site that Must Not be Named.
Hahah XD
Fables: To your first paragraph I say; Yes that was the point I was trying to get across. As people we are all born neutral and its how we are raised that really can play on how closed off we make ourselves or indeed how open we can remain as we grow older :)
Your Second Paragraph; The phrase "otherkin education" is something that would be parroted around at most "gated" communities like that. Its really something you would have to see for yourself to truly understand. We are by no means self loathing I can assure you of that. How ever, many of us out there believe that spirituality is all about finding your own path, everyone is different and not everyone will have the same experience. So when you go into one of these online "gated" communities and see people all trying to be the exact same, or better yet all trying to be just like "the popular guy" and parroting everything he does.. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth, one that's a very familiar taste too *cough* religion *cough* everyone following one set mindset and methodology to try and achieve something that is better done on a personal basis. No need for your last line also, This was never about
one idiot, this was about a group of people who decided to follow that one idiots example. If you are going to take anything from what I said take this... Spirituality is all about your individual identity, not some shake and bake pseudo religion where you follow the most popular guy.
: Drake Wingfire January 31, 2012, 09:31:01 -07:00
Your Second Paragraph; The phrase "otherkin education" is something that would be parroted around at most "gated" communities like that. Its really something you would have to see for yourself to truly understand. We are by no means self loathing I can assure you of that. How ever, many of us out there believe that spirituality is all about finding your own path, everyone is different and not everyone will have the same experience. So when you go into one of these online "gated" communities and see people all trying to be the exact same, or better yet all trying to be just like "the popular guy" and parroting everything he does.. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth, one that's a very familiar taste too *cough* religion *cough* everyone following one set mindset and methodology to try and achieve something that is better done on a personal basis. No need for your last line also, This was never about one idiot, this was about a group of people who decided to follow that one idiots example. If you are going to take anything from what I said take this... Spirituality is all about your individual identity, not some shake and bake pseudo religion where you follow the most popular guy.
I.. am beginning to feel like you're out to misunderstand me. -facepaws-
I realize that spirituality in your own personal path, I have never said anything
against that whatsoever. And by using the term "'kinfolk education" I was making
light of the situation in which the both of y'all seem to have acquired a bad impression
of the community as a whole by judging them solely by the aforementioned "gated
communities". I was trying to say that it would be wise to let go of your bad experiences
and remind yourselves that just because they speak the loudest, doesn't mean they
speak for the community as a whole. Its for the very reason that one's 'kin experience
is personal, that we run into a lot of differences in opinion and weird interpretations
so where-ever you may go in this its wise to take everything said with a grain of salt
and not let their rabble define your opinions so firmly.
I understand completely that it was never about "one" idiot, I have identified as therian
for over a decade and I have seen the best and worst of the communities and communities
themselves come and go but it has never marred my opinions enough to drive me to passions.
When you've seen enough of it, I guess, it becomes merely humorous. I will admit that there
was plenty of time I found myself offended or insulted by beliefs I found but at the end of the
day one really has to remember that its a personal experience, and even the sheep following
the parrots realize that sooner or later they're getting nothing out of following rabble.
I never once said I regarded the otherkin community as black and white. I know that every community has its goods and bads. I was more or less just taking a crack at a tired old excerpt from my past experiences in draconic beliefs because most other (dragon) otherkin can relate and roll their eyes at it, and I knew Drake would at least get a chuckle. =P Many many draconic otherkin started at the community at draconic.com and some realized that the place is just one big cult and left with that bad taste in their mouths, as you said. Drake and myself and many others overcame that bad taste to realize there was more to it than that. I think Drake and I both digressed a little too much from the topic for the sake of sharing a couple "inside" jokes about the place; neither of us was actually segregating the otherkin community in this discussion (not on purpose anyway).
I've been a furry otherkin for almost ten years now. I've seen enough in the first five to be able to formulate my own decisions on where I stand with each community, and I've gained a very opinionated view on the darker sides of them. Usually when I start discussing the bullshit sides of otherkin and furries, it turns into more of a rant which people interpret as acidic rage; when really, I just enjoy yelling and waving my arms around (thank 2 the Ranting Gryphon, that cheesy bastard.) =P I love both communities almost like family. I also regularly bitch and scream with my RL family (though I still love them!), just the same as I bitch and scream with my "family" members in the furry and otherkin communities. XD
I was just tossing my own tangents into the mix, Speaking from experience never holds a right or wrong tag, its subjective. We happen to know online communities do not represent the whole. While I agree that letting go of past bad experiences is a good thing, we know one ranting looney does not define a community, but when said person gets into this position of leadership.. That is when the cult-ish mindset starts to set in. But I will stop short here in saying.
"A nice man will put his past behind him and forget everything. A smart man will put his past behind him, but learn from it"
Just because we still remember said people and events from the past doesn't mean we have some bitter tangent, it simply means we know what A outcome may be and thus are more vigilant and less likely to get burned for being naive. I have met many great otherkin in my time and many.. other types. I will be honest, the ones I know who are balanced with their identity between kin and furry are some of the most outgoing people I met, capable of joking around with AND having some of the most deep conversations with at the same time. (Personal taste for me, I will take a joker over a stiff any day) All I really have been doing is taking my sarcastic crack at the ones who are so rigid and set in one community that they dare not venture out of their little safe havens out of some irrational fear that it would make them less of a kin or something when the opposite is true. Those who dare to step out of their comfort zones and homes grow to be much stronger a character than those who keep themselves confined.
Is it to late to make the joke that other kin is that sibling? Not that one, the other. >.>