the occupy wall street protests? Other than the fact that its freakin EVERY where else. I'm greatly surprised there's no topic on it here.
so. really. People's thoughts. Beginning of the end? Some interesting speculation, some people who follow the 2012 myth, believe it's not the end of the world, so much as the "end of civilization as we know it."
also, there's a support movement happening in Vancouver (at the Art Gallery, of course) on the 15th. anyone going?
The way I see 2012 is just another scare false propaganda. The world could end anytime either naturally or by mankind doesn't have to be in 2012. Could be tomorrow or the next day or maybe 2013 or just not for along time from now.
The thing that scares me the most is the government how they have nuclear bombs and with a push of a button can practically destroy everything and if there was a long period of no power to sustain the nuclear bombs it'd go into meltdown and we would still be fucked.
But that is just one of many things why I fear the government.
The way I see things though if anything were to happen; it wouldn't be the end but just a beginning to something new.
Maybe a revolution will break out for freedom, independence, and such and be a mass civil war running the government down to the ground being all fed up taking there bullshit.
Or maybe aliens will make there appearance known and put a end to mankind's existence or make them more knowledgeable, teaching us.
Seen it all over the twitters, the internets and papers... tl;ldr..
When I read about it, it reminded me of the third Zeitgeist movie where (in the movie) the people couldn't put up with poverty and job loss anymore and threw what little money they had back at the major banks (And wall street) and became self sufficient. Though I think these protests are a farcry from any revolutionary act and will dissolve back into the nothingness it once was.
I wouldn't call it the beginning of the end. But its clear that the notion of Capitalism has become so corrupt with greed that it is stopping the system from properly functioning. Hell even look at Canadian politics, we got tons of unemployment and poverty.. and here the head honchos in politics here get raises every so often to "keep up with the cost of living", the rest of us who are not making at least $15 an hour? haha who gives a shit? Thats the general mindset. They only care so long as they are the ones who get vacations every month and a nice multi-million dollar house, the rest of us can live in a card board box and eat pigeons for all they care.
Whats wrong is there should have been an un-alterable wage cap set for CEO's and government officials to prevent them from choking companies and systems to death with their own personal greed. Many average joe workers have wage caps, after so many years your wage cannot go up (I believe this was something like $15 for retail work, at least for a few employers I have heard from) our officials and CEOs should not be getting the wage hikes, they already earn enough for an insanely comfortable life style.
BC ferries is a great example of this, the guy in charge of it has been getting fucking huge payoffs, yet he is driving the company into the dirt by constantly hiking fares and reducing service. And when his plan doesn't work and revenues go down, he just hikes fares MORE... That is the exact same way wallstreet has been for god knows how long.
: Snoww October 07, 2011, 01:00:24 -06:00
When I read about it, it reminded me of the third Zeitgeist movie where (in the movie) the people couldn't put up with poverty and job loss anymore and threw what little money they had back at the major banks (And wall street) and became self sufficient. Though I think these protests are a farcry from any revolutionary act and will dissolve back into the nothingness it once was.
lol yeah no kidding.
Our society has become too dependent on common luxuries to rebel. We're too soft to live independent of the system now. ;D
: Drake Wingfire October 07, 2011, 03:06:13 -06:00
I wouldn't call it the beginning of the end. But its clear that the notion of Capitalism has become so corrupt with greed that it is stopping the system from properly functioning. Hell even look at Canadian politics, we got tons of unemployment and poverty.. and here the head honchos in politics here get raises every so often to "keep up with the cost of living", the rest of us who are not making at least $15 an hour? haha who gives a shit? Thats the general mindset. They only care so long as they are the ones who get vacations every month and a nice multi-million dollar house, the rest of us can live in a card board box and eat pigeons for all they care.
Whats wrong is there should have been an un-alterable wage cap set for CEO's and government officials to prevent them from choking companies and systems to death with their own personal greed. Many average joe workers have wage caps, after so many years your wage cannot go up (I believe this was something like $15 for retail work, at least for a few employers I have heard from) our officials and CEOs should not be getting the wage hikes, they already earn enough for an insanely comfortable life style.
BC ferries is a great example of this, the guy in charge of it has been getting fucking huge payoffs, yet he is driving the company into the dirt by constantly hiking fares and reducing service. And when his plan doesn't work and revenues go down, he just hikes fares MORE... That is the exact same way wallstreet has been for god knows how long.
Min wage is expectant to rise to 10 dollars an hour, within the next year or two if I recall correctly.
It's sad even with my education I'll be lucky to get a job that pays 15 dollars an hour, that is if I even get a new job after my education is over.
oookay. I said they think it's the end of CIVILIZATION as we know it (aka capitalist society) not the end of the world. o_O chill pill. There have been lots of more mild theories surrounding the 2012 hype, I was pointing one of them out. It's also rumoured to be a time of great spiritual revelation, like the second coming of Jesus or something. I'm not saying this is the beginning of the end of the world. Just maybe the beginning of the fall of capitalism. Wouldn't that be interesting to live through?
So. recap. not the end of the world. just capitalism. Maybe. @_@
If you want to put the local one in the Calendar, you're welcome to.
: Wula October 07, 2011, 06:35:52 -06:00
I feel I am lucky with the position I am in my life right now. Where I am making $17+ hr can live on my own and support my pets comfortably and still have enough money left over to spend on whatever I feel like. But the reality is not everyone is as fortunate. And so for everyone else that isn't as lucky enough to have a good job with no real present or future, yes I can understand why they are going to march and speak out. Because we all have to if we want change to the corrupt system. Since our current leaders don't want to allow change as they are living way better lives then we will ever. But does this mean it is end of the world and we are all going to die? NO. The people that want to think that are just getting out of hand and believing piles of bullshit from people trying to scare others with no facts. If anything thing this event should hopefully spark a bigger fire that will burn down the system filled with corruption and eventually evolve into a better way of life for all. Where we don't have massive corporations exploiting us and politicians screwing us over whenever they can. Because you know there is something wrong when you see taxes on top of taxes, companies penny pinching their customers, etc.>:/ And so whenever I know I can exploit the system I do and I do not feel bad about it. Because it just means I am getting some of my money that is rightfully mine back to me. And everyone else should do the same (as long as they make it untraceable that is xP).
But for all those that keep on getting worked up over end of the world is near bullshit with every little event need to shut up and go somewhere else where they will only harm themselves. I will only believe the end of the world is here when I got a massive asteroid flying towards my house. Till then stfu and gtfo.
You make 17+ an hour? Any room for employment? (Not sure where you work x3 but grabs a fancy suit and resume anyways)
: Snoww October 07, 2011, 06:07:30 -06:00
Min wage is expectant to rise to 10 dollars an hour, within the next year or two if I recall correctly.
It's sad even with my education I'll be lucky to get a job that pays 15 dollars an hour, that is if I even get a new job after my education is over.
Yeah I use to make $11/hr as a computer tech, I had no certs, got the job off of my pure knack for computers.. loved the job untill I was getting belittled and used as the scape goat (pretty much there were times someone would fuck something up and it would take extra time to fix it and when the customers would come in the manager would go "oh you know those younger people, they screw up lots") Ultimately lead to me being "layed off" when I dared to even inquite about a raise since I was their lowest payed and most worked employee. Turns out you have no rights when you work for independent small businesses.
So yeah now I am at wal-mart making $9.40/hr only getting half the house I did at my tech job cause Island employment is about as bountiful as food is in South Africa. So I am staring at the calendar waiting for min wage to go up in the slight chance I can actually save some money and truly improve my life. >.=.<
that's funny; I used to make $14 an hour as an uncertified computer tech. and then they tried to push me more into sales than techy stuff, and I got fired. I'm not a sales person, *shrug* it was no skin off my back. It was a decent company though, i'd go back.
Wait, you make $9.40 and live on your own? :o
This bodes well for me. ;D
Making $9.40 hourly and living on your own is *not* easy, Ren. Nigh impossible anywhere but Langley or Surrey if you have anything more than basic expenses (Optometry, prescriptions or whatever; Next to no employers take care of these expenses nowadays)
What I want to know is what OWS's ultimate goal is? What's the smaller picture beyond getting mad and protesting? No government or group of billionaires is gonna list to a bunch of rioters, no matter if they're mad as hell because they have the money to crush just about anything short of a revolution. (Which would never work in the US or Canada, but that's a tangent.)
I want to know what OWS is trying to accomplish. Yes I read their site and some information on them, but it's not clear what they want to do, beyond annoy the free market and get their 15 minutes on TV.
: Renwaldo October 07, 2011, 11:35:51 -06:00
Wait, you make $9.40 and live on your own? :o
This bodes well for me. ;D
On my own? Oh god damn freaking hell no XD I would starve to death even at the place I am living now in Duncan on the island here..
$9.40 when I am rooming with my mate who makes $10.30 means we can actually afford rent, both our cars AND food at least decently enough, but it still means saving money for school or anything is an extremely slow process when you can only manage very small amounts every month.
In regards to Selkit; yeah this is true, I live in one of the more "lower income" citys on the island here and $500/mo no utils is the best deal me and my mate found, everywhere else wanted at least close to $700/mo for a 1 bedroom of comparable size. Don't get me wrong, I love Duncan cause its nice and small and not so crowded and full of druggies, but BC has become the Florida of Canada, we are bringing in too many rich retirees and its been jacking housing and commodity prices way up. Unless the government truly does something then Alberta and Saskatchewan are gonna keep seeing skilled BC workers moving over to where the costs of living are lower and the wages are significantly higher. In other words, BC is trying to fix our local economy like a shotgun would fix the hull of a boat.
Yeah. i mean, even if the world DOES end in 2012, what good is panicking gonna do about it? :p
But it'll be interesting to see if any of this 'end of civilization' "fall of American empire" 'spiritual revelation' stuff happens. It makes me kinda giddy just thinking about it, XD *is a loser*
I'm thinking of checking it out, looks like a nice bike ride for Saturday morning.
I was able to live on my own (well, with a roommate) on minimum wage 7 years ago. Not having a car helped, and I hardly spent *any* money on things that weren't important. It is do-able.
: JFoxx October 07, 2011, 02:01:12 -06:00
But that is just one of many things why I fear the government.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
-Thomas Jefferson
I hope I'm not the first here to bring up the whole 'Remember the Y2K scare?' thing... But really. That one had a semi-not-really-but-it-scared-the-techturtles-reasonable reason behind it, with the old clocks resetting. With 2012, it's based on an interpretation of an old civilization we don't fully understand, and then sensationalized and publicized until it becomes fact, or at least popular myth.
Honestly.
The reason everything seems to be going terribly is because of the speed and power of our communication. We haven't even had anything heavy hit home yet in North America. Sure, the storms out east, and oil and food prices hiking... housing as well... but imagine how it must have felt after the first Great War. All the soldiers, well more importantly, very few of the soldiers come home, and what happens? Spanish Flu. Kills millions, whole towns deserted with one or two paranoid souls left, bodies burning... This is nothing.
We're just far more aware of how much stuff there is going on in the world. And how terrible a large amount of it is.
Now I'm not saying things aren't getting worse, I mean, Greece has defaulted, a large amount of the Middle East is in turmoil, there's the newer Occupy things going on... but it's not all a bad thing. These changes, these struggles, are all important, and many good.
Change is the thing that keeps systems working properly. It's either change and adapt or stagnate and die, and s a race, as the only active sentient entity on this earth... we owe it to the land that spawned us to not bolluck it up. We need to change, we will adapt... and we'll prosper for it. We've discovered a virus that kills cancer cells with 100% effectiveness and no ill side-effects to the host. We're making more powerful solar cells and other green energy types, and cybernetics is no longer a thing of fantasy and imagination. We have machines that can sense our very thoughts, lenses that can look as far within as without, and we're finally getting a handle on just how we really fit into the world.
In all this turmoil and pain all I can do is look forward, eagerly, and push things along as best as I can.
Thus I'll be there at the support protest. Hope to see you there!
{edit} Fixed any language and the odd double-post thing
: Zen October 08, 2011, 02:49:40 -06:00
I want to know what OWS is trying to accomplish. Yes I read their site and some information on them, but it's not clear what they want to do, beyond annoy the free market and get their 15 minutes on TV.
It's about a whole bunch of different things for different people. Students are mad they pay monster tuition fees for jobs that aren't available. People are angry at all the real estate speculation in Vancouver that has blasted home ownership out of the reach of the average citizen. In the states it the sub prime loans that banks were selling to people, then betting *against* them in the market and repo-ing their houses when they couldn't make payments when prime went up a hair. It has been reported that the top 1% of all earners own 40% of all the wealth. This may not be exactly the stat in Canada, but I've read the gap is actually larger up here (No source, admittedly. Sorry). This is particularly troubling when you consider how much of this is 'old money'. Trust fund kids of the USA richest families: http://www.nndb.com/lists/439/000127058. (http://www.nndb.com/lists/439/000127058.) To expand on this, I would love to see a progressive estate tax imposed in Canada akin to what Warren Buffet is talking about: http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/11/14/us-buffett-congress-idUSN1442383020071114 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/11/14/us-buffett-congress-idUSN1442383020071114)
For a good, and brief tidbit. Here is our own Canadas worst 'reporter' Kevin O'leary getting told what OWS is about from pulizter winning Chris Hedges. If that makes you mad, know that
your taxes pay to put Kevin O'Leary on the air.Chris Hedges smacks down Kevin O'Leary [© CBC] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQzq_WbH4E0#ws)
Truth be told, things are not
as bad up here in Canada as they are in the USA... But this is a general protest against the established double standard given to corporations over citizens, the rich over the poor. To quote Richard Beale famous speech from 'The Network':
I don't want you to riot - I don't want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street. All I know is that first you've got to get mad.
I made reference to that speech before, from Network, but removed the embedded youtube vid. (Stupid auto-embed.)
I've had one person explain it decently, what the ultimate goal is, but that's it. Beyond their one explanation, this just seems like a vague attention grab session still. It might spark conversation, and some protests, but will ultimately die out.
It could possibly fade out. Then again, the whole Tunisian revolution was sparked by some person getting fed up with being insulted and harassed by a government official. I'm optimistic people wont be lighting themselves on fire, but I'd love to see things shaken up a bit. My personal talking point is the estate tax.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Bouazizi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Bouazizi)
downtown today ( Saturday Oct 15th) at noon, in front of art gallery. show up and support!
http://act.bcfed.ca/solidaritywithoccupywallstreet/ (http://act.bcfed.ca/solidaritywithoccupywallstreet/)
You aren't supposed to live on your own on minimum wage.
It's the bare bones wage for shitty jobs meant for people with no skils.
Living on your own / having a car / eating well are luxuries that society has reserved for people who have something to give back.
It's minimum livable wage, as in "you wont die if you have this much money"
It's not Minimum live on your own while you drive a car and eat out every day... wage.
: Ember October 15, 2011, 11:04:21 -06:00
You aren't supposed to live on your own on minimum wage.
It's the bare bones wage for shitty jobs meant for people with no skils.
Living on your own / having a car / eating well are luxuries that society has reserved for people who have something to give back.
I take it you still live at home then, that or you are one of the "lucky ones" who got in on some good job.
But a little reality check none the less, no one openly chooses to live paycheck to paycheck. And if decent food, being able to simply drive to work and not living on the street is a "luxury" then we are even more fucked than we thought :P
I know dozens of people who got skills alright, people who went to college and actually specialized in something, not one of these lame "personal interest" courses that get you nothing at the end, wanna know where they work? Wal-mart, Starbucks and Mc Donalds because the jobs are not even there or even if they are the hours and wage are shit for the amount of training they went through. Still not sure what you mean by "reserved for people who have something to give back" I just assume you forget about all the taxes that everyone pays on shit or the fact that even the lowest of jobs is providing a service to everyone. Try getting that car, buying that food or getting a house when there is no one working the stores to get the food from, no mechanics or car salesmen to help you with that vehicle, or no tradesmen to build the homes, its a little tricky I would think.
The Occupy protesters, along with Amnesty International, will be staging a protest in Surrey at the Sheraton Hotel on the morning of October 20, to protest George W. Bush's speaking engagement (ironically at a summit concerning economics).
http://www.straight.com/article-488596/vancouver/occupy-surrey-protest-welcome-george-w-bush-canada (http://www.straight.com/article-488596/vancouver/occupy-surrey-protest-welcome-george-w-bush-canada)
: Ember October 15, 2011, 11:04:21 -06:00
You aren't supposed to live on your own on minimum wage.
It's the bare bones wage for shitty jobs meant for people with no skils.
Living on your own / having a car / eating well are luxuries that society has reserved for people who have something to give back.
I want you to think about this the next time you go to WalMart to buy groceries or to an EBGames to pick up your latest entertainment: the people who work there and serve you make very close to or minimum wage. If they weren't there, where would you buy groceries or video games? How can you possible have the pall to say these people don't have anything to give back, or have no skills? What about when you go out for coffee? Or you buy your gas? And on and on.
The gears that grind and work this society are the people with the minimum wage jobs who pump the gas for CEOs and make the coffee of marketing directors. They don't have the luxury of parents who can afford to send them to school; they pay for it on their own with these shitty jobs and through extortionist student loans that our provincial government provide, so that they can afford to "give something back", and so they don't feel like the scum that you make them feel they are. And in the end? They're still working at Starbucks because their degree doesn't guarantee them a job, and now the government needs to be repaid.
Also, it must be nice that while you wait for your skills to develop, you have somewhere to live where you don't have to support yourself, whether that be friends, parents, or whatever. I guess it never crossed your mind that some of our friends or parents don't have the financial backing to support us either, even if they are of "value to society", such as my father, a 30+ year veteran of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, a Federal Government department.
As far as I'm concerned, for the amount of shit these "no skills" workers put up with every single day, their minimum wage should be $16/hr. That would put them above the poverty line. We consider shelter, food, clothing, and health to be basic human rights and yet we make people fight for it like animals to the benefit of companies who take the savings and give it all in a fat cheque to their already overpaid CEOs.
No skills workers. To paraphrase Trudeau, fuddle-duddle. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuddle_duddle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuddle_duddle))
: Selkit October 08, 2011, 10:29:57 -06:00
Making $9.40 hourly and living on your own is *not* easy, Ren. Nigh impossible anywhere but Langley or Surrey if you have anything more than basic expenses (Optometry, prescriptions or whatever; Next to no employers take care of these expenses nowadays)
I know it's an old quote, but I've got something for zombies, I make 10 an hour with my bf who makes 20 cents less and together we have difficulty, not to mention with him going to school so he can make more money is very stressful on us both! I was lucky enough for my dad to step in and buy me new glasses. With 'no schooling' jobs... what are we supposed to do? Nelson is expensive, they did a poll on housing and found very little below 750 and that's not mentioning whether its utl. included or no.
I'm just glad that when Remi's done culinary school people will still be needing to eat.
I pay $1500 for our place in Vancouver for a basement suite... $750 would be rad.
: squashNstretch October 16, 2011, 06:18:39 -06:00
I pay $1500 for our place in Vancouver for a basement suite... $750 would be rad.
Best deal I have ever found on the island was $500/mo no utils, I gotta say its a freaking god send. The are use to be one of Duncan's problem area, but they got rid of the druggies so now its just low income families and couples like me and my mate. With our jobs this is the only place we can afford to stay at. Once again I try hard not to bash BC, but you gotta admit, when $650 can get you a decent 2-bedroom in other provinces and even a shit one here in BC is near $900, shit isnt right.
: squashNstretch October 16, 2011, 06:18:39 -06:00
I pay $1500 for our place in Vancouver for a basement suite... $750 would be rad.
there were only 3 places in the survey close to that, not mentioning whether they were including utl. or not