For those that don't know, BC Hydro has been going around and installing Smart Meters on people's houses. Digital meters that replace the analog ones we all have on a wall outside that measure electricity. The problem with this is that they make a very powerful electromagnetic field that is more than ten times as strong than your cell phone and they monitor exactly what appliances you have on and when, and is therefore a hazardous surveillance device.
You do have the right to refuse installation, no matter what the installer or BC hydro says to you.
More information here http://www.hans.org/magazine/877/Form-Letter-to-BC-Hydro (http://www.hans.org/magazine/877/Form-Letter-to-BC-Hydro) here http://www.stopsmartmetersbc.ca/html/ (http://www.stopsmartmetersbc.ca/html/) and this is a local newspaper where I first got my information. http://www.terracedaily.ca/cgi-bin/show_articles.cgi?ID=8383&TOPIC=0 (http://www.terracedaily.ca/cgi-bin/show_articles.cgi?ID=8383&TOPIC=0)
Get well informed before you are told they are installing a smart meter.
They can't tell *exactly* what appliance you are using, but they can tell when you turn one on or off and exactly how much power it uses. They can tell exactly when you get up, go to bed, leave or come home by consumption at a specific time, unless you don't turn anything on or off at those times.
They are also hackable, and will probably end up costing BC Hydro (us) more in the long run...
The '10 times more power than a cell phone' bit is fear mongering, pure and simple.
Inverse-square Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law) - you don't sit with your cheek pressed up against the smart metre. :p I'd wager having a microwave or CRT ('tube') TV or monitor in the house puts out more EM that reaches you (fewer pesky attenuating walls in the way). Not to mention all those lovely radio stations and other people's cell phone conversations passing through you, or gamma rays from space that go right through the entire Earth and keep on going, or the lovely strong dose of radiation that can burn you when you step outside (i.e. the sun). ;)
Not to mention, the kind of EM we use for communications is in the non-ionizing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-ionizing_radiation) range. You'd probably get a much bigger dose of EM, overall, just going outside in the sun or going to your local mall and having all those people's cell phones on and around you than you would in the odd blip here and there of traffic from the metre (it's not transmitting all the time).
The privacy bit with regards to what power you're using is a bit more interesting, but the point of it is to see, hour by hour, if you're using more or less than your neighbors, and what the average of the area is, so Hydro can adjust their base load generation and capacity accordingly. See, if you don't generate enough power for demand, you get brownouts and blackouts, but if you generate too much, that excess power (and fuel), barring fancy recovery efforts and storage, is just wasted. You want to generate the bare minimum possible to serve everyone adequately, so you're not wasting fuel (or water), and especially not building any more dams than you really need to. I don't think the metres are accurate enough to be all 'oh, so and so is watching this program on TV!', just 'overall, the house used X kw/h from 8-9AM, and X*1.25 kw/h from 9-10', that kind of thing.
Kithop, you actually checked the links and read the info before saying that right? Examined the graphs and whatnot?
Yup! Inverse square law key chunk:
"The intensity (or illuminance or irradiance) of light or other linear waves radiating from a point source (energy per unit of area perpendicular to the source) is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source; so an object (of the same size) twice as far away, receives only one-quarter the energy (in the same time period)."
A 1W cell phone barely inches from your face will put MUCH more juice into you than a 10W smart meter over 100x the distance away (think of how small the gap is between the phone antenna and your skin).
With regards to ionizing/non-ionizing radiation, this is going to be in the microwave band (I wouldn't be surprised if it were ~2.4 GHz or ~5 GHz), hence on the 'non-ionising' side of the graph. Non-ionizing radiation, like cell phones and FM/AM radio, microwave ovens, etc., may excite water molecules in something and cause localised heating (this is how microwave ovens work, BTW), but they're not going to do much else.
I'm not sure what counterpoint you're trying to direct me at...?
In fact, BC Hydro themselves look to have actually put up a lot of the same info: Radio Frequency & Smart Meters (http://www.bchydro.com/energy_in_bc/projects/smart_metering_infrastructure_program/faqs/radio_frequency.html)
I have no problem disagreeing with the waste of taxpayer money these things may be, or the possible privacy concerns, but jumping on the method of wireless communication they use in this day and age is a bit misleading, I think.
I'm not sure where you're getting the '10x a cell phone' bit, either...
From HowStuffworks (http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cell-phone2.htm), "Many cell phones have two signal strengths: 0.6 watts and 3 watts (for comparison, most CB radios transmit at 4 watts)."
And from BC Hydro (http://www.bchydro.com/energy_in_bc/projects/smart_metering_infrastructure_program/faqs/radio_frequency.html), "Unlike other wireless infrastructure, smart meters use very low power signals - about one watt."
When I say at least 10x, I am looking at the second "corrected" graph on the newspaper article I linked everyone towards. With the amount shown, it is a problem to me since my meter is on the other side of my bedroom wall that I have my bed against. Now I suck at math so let me get out my calculator here. Okay, withing 10 feet, I would be taking approximately 16x more than a cellphone next to my ear apparently. Now, since my bed is next to a wall and my head is therefore less than 3 feet away from my meter, if it were to be a smart meter then I would be taking approximately 160x that of a cellphone at my ear. Now extend that to over a period of 8 hours for being asleep, then add about 4 hours for when I lay in bed and read.
...a graph that has no units listed in its Y-axis, and assumes the Smart Meter is 'Always On' when it's not - like Hydro said, it's barely a few minutes a day.
I love how they say it's been 'corrected to show the same units of measurement' when they don't even tell you what it is they're measuring or what those units are. Is it watts/cm2? Milliwatts? dBm? Magical fluffy bunnies per minute?
I'm sorry, but I don't trust the mass media on either side of this issue, but I do know my basic Physics. 1W radiated power even on just the other side of a wall is still about equivalent to a cell phone at the same distance. If the cell phone is getting a weak signal and boosting its output to 3W, then it will be 'louder' than the meter. The further away from the meter you are, the quicker the energy recieved falls off... the fact that they have '3 Feet' and '10 Feet' listed (and the huge drop between the two) looks roughly accurate, but the numbers and size of the bars themselves look WAY out, misleading 'Always On' bit notwithstanding.
Thanks for clearing that up but I still will refuse installation if it comes around. It is considered a surveillance device so they require permission from me by federal law.
You can delay it, yes, not prevent it entirely, AFAIK, and I'd think it falls under the same set of laws that allows BC Hydro employees onto your property for the purpose of looking at the meter. This is the equivalent of having someone come in every hour to read the dial, rather than once a month... I'm not too sure what else you're worried about, but that's your call.
I can always build a locking box around my meter with a hole in it so they can see the measurements itself. They can not legally remove the box as it is part of my property and they can not make me change it. Also apparently there is that letter and you can print up a form to put next to the box that actually says they are not allowed to install one.
: Kardrack October 03, 2011, 03:11:39 -06:00
I can always build a locking box around my meter with a hole in it so they can see the measurements itself. They can not legally remove the box as it is part of my property and they can not make me change it. Also apparently there is that letter and you can print up a form to put next to the box that actually says they are not allowed to install one.
I am going to go out on a limb and say that you cant physically prevent BC Hydro from not accessing/changing their meter. Worse casnrio, they cut your service. If you deny access long enough they will cut it at the pole, or dig and cutt the underground cable, at your expenese of course. Carefull how far you want to take this.cess long enough they will cut it at the pole, or dig and cutt the underground cable, at your expenese of course. Carefull how far you want to take this.
I got the notice in the mail that they will be changing my meter to a smart meter. I don't care one iota. Even if I owned this house and was allowed to make decisions like that, I would still let them. I don't care if they are monitoring my daily hydro usage. I am not doing anything illegal like powering a grow-op. XD
: zenia October 03, 2011, 07:49:46 -06:00
I got the notice in the mail that they will be changing my meter to a smart meter. I don't care one iota. Even if I owned this house and was allowed to make decisions like that, I would still let them. I don't care if they are monitoring my daily hydro usage. I am not doing anything illegal like powering a grow-op. XD
Exactly This :3
Now how the hell am I gonna start up a grow operation? Jeez, always big-wigs have to take away all the oppertunities for investment and business in B.C.
I could go on a big rant about our two-faced green initiatives but I think I'll spare you all the free sleep-aid and just cut to the chase saying: The smart-meters are another example of poorly-thought up projects by the private sector, pushed to politicians who push it on us to save B.C. Hydro a few cents per household. If you think the saving are in any way passed on to you... you're deeply misguided. These installations are for the benefit of B.C. Hydro courtesy of us, taxpaying citizens. Don't get me wrong, power is good and I'm all for paying taxes for essential services, but this project is using a tonne of our hard-earned money for solely their benefit yo.
I really am not worried.. the people making the biggest stink/ fear mongering about this are the same old people who are:::
Afraid that people can control their computer if its turned on and not hooked to any sorta network..
Assume that radio waves are the same thing as nuclear radiation..
Have no idea that they are surrounded by phone networks, wireless router networks, open air radio and TV waves 24/7 which would add up a LOT faster than a short Wi-Fi burst from a meter..
Think that people can read their debit and credit cards long range when even some of the newest dang machines at stores have an issue reading them when they are swiped and making contact with the dang magnetic read head.
Frankly I have been reading too many news articles written by paranoid completley technology impaired people. I cringe every time because the stupidity makes my head hurt, the same kinda people who walk into computer stores and go "my central processor is out of memory, I think it needs more intel and "screen cards" to make it have more space" Meaning most of the article are a lot of hot air and big words used to try and instill fear into people.
Any more EM waves are bad because they make you uneasy, but its not that awful. just don't stand next to it and you'll be fine Duh. I don't expect to be pressing my head against the power meter.
Potential radiation contamination is not as big an issue as is the very likely probability that once Smart meters are installed we will probably get TOUB'ed.
The topic of smart meters has come up on local talk shows and there is anecdotal evidence from the public that their bills are going up 10 to 15% within a month after the meters had been installed. (A possible hidden rate increase that they believe to be one of the methods used by Hydro that will pay for costs of the smart meter program.) If Time of use Billing is introduced then the rates could go up considerably more, a double money grab as it were. Hydro wanted to drastically increase rates to users over the next couple of years a while back so that they could start a major infrastructure upgrade and replacement program. Don't get me wrong, I'm not ignorant of the need to improve and update aging infrastructure. That said I'm quite sure that the program is still there, but because of the public backlash at the original rate increase proposals that I think they may try to sneak those increases in to meter replacement costs, TOUB'ing and whatever other excuse they can find.
When it comes to green initiatives there are two types that I have seen.
Type A - The type that you, I and the general public practices, reduce, reuse, recycle, take transit, reduce your impact on the environment etc. etc. etc.
Type B - Corporations and governments use environmentalism as a means to increase taxes, the cost of living or raise prices in the name of green initiatives. Government says they will introduce fuel or consumption taxes, but instead of putting those funds to environmental causes or transit the revenue finds its way into the mega black hole known as "General Revenue". Companies re-brand their products as being environmental but in reality all they have done is to sell the same thing as before but re-wrapped with sweet looking earth colored packaging with the words "Green, New and Improved" or "Environmentally Friendly" in bold letters across the box. Yet when you go look at the ingredients they are the same as the old non environmentally friendly versions that they sold before all the "green movement nonsense" began.
In short I believe that Smart Meters are a part of BC Hydro's form of type 2 environmentalism. Its not for the public's own good and safety as much as it is a tool for increasing Hydro's profit margin.
Sadly, we can't do a lot of the Type A type stuff without some of the Type B creeping in, because, hey, we're in a capitalist society (for better or worse), and greed is the name of the game these days. :/
I certainly would be more concerned about the potential for monitoring than I would the wavelengths.
I glanced through BC Hydro's information page and can't see just how and what they will be transmitting with their smart meters, and just how that data is encrypted. This almost makes me wonder if the meters are subjectable to wardriving (getting in a car with an antenna and crusing a block collecting bulk data) that might give someone with less than pure intentions information about when I am most likely not home or active in my dwelling. Such an incident alreayd happened slightly benignly with Google maps when they collected access point locations while mapping out roads.
SOmeone able to point me to the relevant section?
Pat;
Basic physics alone dictate that the wavelengths these meters emit are harmless. You have bigger problems with a cellphone, or a wireless router in a public place (They're frequently set to higher output gain than most home equipment, and certainly higher than these meters). The absolute worst these wavelengths could do is cook you. Very slowly, and very inefficiently. At about one thousand times the output. With your head pressed against the unit. On the other hand, data security is the real problem that most people are overlooking here. If information is broadcast, information can be intercepted, it's really that simple. Only obfuscation methods keep the information from being trivially accessible, and we all know how good security is when human beings are involved. The method's only as good as the weakest technical brain in the loop.
Err, I never said I was worried about the EM/Microwave emissions?
What I stated I was more concerned about is the data transmissions and exactly what is being transmitted how.
Yup. If the information is broadcast, that broadcast can be intercepted. Deciphered? That depends on how well the data itself is secured; Interception's one matter, decryption is another. Any technology has points it can be cracked through eventually. I wouldn't be surprised if they do something arrogant like decide weak encryption is sufficient, after all, "What person in their right mind cares about appliance use, power trending in a house and whatnot", some exec will probably think? Information's a lever you can move the world with, given enough of it to lean on.
My real question... what are people gonna do with power usage readouts? Seriously...
Am I really gonna walk into work one day and overhear someone going "I know what you do bob, your power usages spikes by 35% around six pm.. SIX PM! I know you are making dinner at that time or doing laundry, and I am gonna tell the whole world!! Prepare to be ruined cause everyone will know your dirty little secret of eating dinner at SIX!"
But no.. some one some where is gonna go "this man hacked into my meter.. he made a power surge happen and then all my stuff blew up! and then he stole my credit card information with it too"
Lets put it this way... even if I had a wide open wireless network, the average person would have no idea how to even find out my net usage or what dirty web sights you may be going to.
: wolfensongman October 03, 2011, 10:32:33 -06:00
Now how the hell am I gonna start up a grow operation? Jeez, always big-wigs have to take away all the oppertunities for investment and business in B.C.
Build a fake server farm and hide it inside :evil:
I honestly don't understand how they can tell what is used when. Especially with so many devices pulling varying amounts of wattage.
The only concern I have about these is them being used by eco police or some kind of future power rationing. But it's all speculation.
: Kithop October 03, 2011, 12:51:29 -06:00
...Magical fluffy bunnies per minute?
I get 3 fluffies/minute on my old cellphone. It;s about 4.5-5 on my Galaxy S2