~Edited~ i was tired when i first posted this ;)
I have absorbed a lot of random writing skills after 7 years of college, and many years of reading and analysis of story construction. I admit my weakness is always grammar as I have always groaned at those parts and i wish i had of paid better attention. I think everyone has skills in one aspect or another and no one less developed skill should detract from the whole. New things can be learned, old things can be relearned and improved upon, and things we know well can be shared to help teach others.
In the world of furry fiction, who better than furs to interpret the sometimes strange topics encountered in the fandom. If you are like me you may have a ton of ideas, many stories unfinished or some skills but no ideas to write. The purpose of this group would be to help everyone out to better ourselves.
I guess i could call this the "Vancouver Writers Group"
in short. i was thinking of doing a peer review meet up group once or twice a month to share new works, help each other construct and learn new skills and better our current understandings.
The group would:
talk talk about and share fiction.
-prepare for each session a short story, single chapter or other short work. (From scratch or part of a project already in the works?)
-we would review grammar and technical aspects and draw on everyone knowledge.
-improve our abilities to self edit, identify not just grammar but plot errors and other issues.
-talk about fiction crafting topics such as; plot devices, character development, story, characters, dialogue, and other such topics.
-we would then review the works given to us last time with critique and then read out some of the new work before taking it home to critique.
if this sounds like something you would be interested in, let me know and i can try to organize it. I am sure it will not be dry at all considering it is furry fiction. so it should be quite entertaining and open minded atmosphere.
Two sentences into your second paragraph and I couldn't continue to read due to grammar, spelling and syntax errors. I hope that's a pointed intention.
In any case, I might be interested; being a writer and everything.
Well, I've taken a course in creative writing last year, so I guess I could help to an extent.
This sounds like a good idea to me.
: JestersKing September 01, 2011, 03:23:10 -06:00
Two sentences into your second paragraph and I couldn't continue to read due to grammar, spelling and syntax errors. I hope that's a pointed intention.
In any case, I might be interested; being a writer and everything.
i fixed the post, i wrote it in a rush. i sat on the topic for a week and decided what exactly i wanted in more detail. my first post made it sound like i was asking for an editor for some finished work but i am trying to form a writing group for a couple writers to work constructively in for fun and improvement.
: CanucksSpitz September 01, 2011, 12:23:25 -06:00
Well, I've taken a course in creative writing last year, so I guess I could help to an extent.
cool, i added some more details above. ( edited the original post as it was vague at what i was asking about).
I have found in the past for art critique that a good size of a group is 4-8 people to review to many and its to much to review weekly and that means less meet ups. Wednesday nights, or Sunday nights i believe woudl work best for me as my schedule exists now but it may be changing. id recommended doing it in a quiet apartment rather than a public place. i live in new west close to sky trains. where do all three of you live? and what is your free time during the week? i would start slow at twice a month and see how it progresses.
Oh one last note, i will be attending Rainfurrest and busy a bit until that time. So it would be sometime early October i would be trying to set something up. may even try to take minutes or general notes for each session i can email, or email any digital copies of works around. Good news is i am sitting as i write this, waiting for chapters to open. I am getting a book on grammar recommended by Kyell Gold, to add to my collection. "Elements of style". I am planning to study the technical so that some of the rust should be gone by the time i actually get to do any peer review. I will be in a lot of the writing panels at Rainfurrest for the same reason.
Your updated first post is basically what I thought you meant from the original.
I'm out by Coquitlam Centre. Sundays (especially late morning) or Tuesdays would be the best days for me -- I can't really do much Wednesday through Saturday because of my work schedule. Twice a month sounds good to me.
I've a variety of books on writing that I'd be willing to bring along if anyone's interested; I'll produce a list later if people would like.
: Lunar_Live September 01, 2011, 01:47:01 -06:00
I have absorbed a lot of random writing skills after 7 years of collage, and many years of reading and analysis of story constriction.
:roll:
: Lunar_Live September 01, 2011, 01:47:01 -06:00
I have absorbed a lot of random writing skills after 7 years of collage, and many years of reading and analysis of story constriction.
: Ember September 02, 2011, 12:38:28 -06:00
:roll:
While I generally
like pointing out spelling and grammatical errors, I'd also like to make the observation that my father has been writing for major national and international publications for
40 years. He still makes spelling mistakes.
I think that's sort of the point of what Lunar is trying for here. A second pair of eyes can make all the difference in the world when you're writing something.
[MOD]No personal attacks. :police:[/MOD]
Regardless of what "the best damn fox in creation" thinks, a peer review is always a good idea for aspiring writers. I'd be willing to take part, though I don't often write too much prose. :/
As long as we're looking at days to meet up, the only reliable day of the week I personally have off is Monday but I suppose if the meets were once or twice monthly I could work around that.
: Carthage September 02, 2011, 12:58:35 -06:00
While I generally like pointing out spelling and grammatical errors, I'd also like to make the observation that my father has been writing for major national and international publications for 40 years. He still makes spelling mistakes.
I think that's sort of the point of what Lunar is trying for here. A second pair of eyes can make all the difference in the world when you're writing something.
amen prose panther! ~bows with respect humbly~
Well so far it looks like we have four that seem interested.
1) Myself (Lunar),
2) JestersKing,
3) Gren,
4) CanucksSpitz.
and? were you also interested Carthage?
Again; i will be focusing on this after Rain Furrest. So i will be trying to figure out days off and peoples best days and all that jazz after RF. I have a whole con ahead of me, and the time before and at the con to practice writing. I did just pick up the elements of style and a few story structure books to help remind me the many things i am trying to draw from memory 8 years past. Which was the last time i actually was in an official writing class. It is amazing the knowledge you forget but how some of it is remembered the second you open up a grammar book and start reading rules of writing. I was in military for two years, had two years of visual arts, two years of animation and now two years of post graduate employment.
Simply put rusty wolf needs some oil; but that's why i am here. It is just as much my own responsibility to work hard in my spare time, and practice so i earn my seat in any critique group. In a month i should be ready to, listen, learn, and help out others with the puzzle pieces i already know. I am better with plot and story, i just suck at grammar and all the technical aspects. I grew up in small town hick ville, and learned to type by talking to furs online (who furs in general notoriously have bad, quick, or laziness with grammar). Stands to reason if you practice writing, like practicing art, you get better. I agree with Carthage that even the life time experience make mistakes, so no one is perfect but we get better a heck of a lot faster working together than working apart.
As far as online etiquette and protocol in online form posts, is regarded. Its pretty obvious mine sucks, as i would not be on this topic otherwise. Captain obvious is not welcome in the land of the novice. Not everyone is perfect C3P0 in grammar, or has Han solo's years of experience. Sometimes we are like Luke; novices who are unsure of our own skills. All we can do is rely on our gut feelings until we learn the right path. Otherwise we never will become master Jedi; or published authors respectfully.
INQUIRY FOR ALL INTERESTED
what are a few of your writing strengths and weaknesses?
(To give everyone here an idea who is good at what. and what everyone would want from this.)
again i am good with story plot and structure. but horrible at actual grammar and technical skills.
i got that book i had mentioned earlier, elements of style, plus a few more... its all coming back to me slowly O_O... which scares me. I guess you never really forget.. now it will take me awhile to read, understand, memorize and apply.
THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO POSITIVELY REPLIED AND SHOWED GENUINE INTEREST
i shall contact you all in a month to try to set up a meet up. and anyone else interested is free to reply below
: Ember September 02, 2011, 01:06:41 -06:00
[MOD]No personal attacks. :police:[/MOD]
Every time you, or anyone else posts with obvious intent to troll on my post topics; i will report it to the moderator and let rainrat know personally.
The drama any troll provokes; will not be created, inflated, or go any father than this post.
Keep this distasteful behavior up and you will be banned.
Play nice or go away.
also editing your posts to delete evidence will do no good as i will quote it.
: Lunar_Live September 04, 2011, 06:49:55 -06:00
Well so far it looks like we have four that seem interested.
1) Myself (Lunar),
2) JestersKing,
3) Gren,
4) CanucksSpitz.
and? were you also interested Carthage?
Not particularly, no.
I just felt like pointing that one thing out.
: Carthage September 04, 2011, 07:29:13 -06:00
Not particularly, no.
I just felt like pointing that one thing out.
roger, thought so, thanks for clarifying ^_^
: Lunar_Live September 02, 2011, 09:43:59 -06:00
I have found in the past for art critique that a good size of a group is 4-8 people to review to many and its to much to review weekly and that means less meet ups. Wednesday nights, or Sunday nights i believe woudl work best for me as my schedule exists now but it may be changing. id recommended doing it in a quiet apartment rather than a public place. i live in new west close to sky trains. where do all three of you live? and what is your free time during the week? i would start slow at twice a month and see how it progresses.
I might be able to dig back some of my Creative Writing notes, methinks. I've got them all backed up on some EHD somewhere.
Wednesday nights? It's going to be tight. My work shift lies from 1730 to 2030 hours, on the opposite side of UBC from where I'm staying - I live in UBC for study means. I'm afraid this may be a bit of a schedule conflict on my end. As for Sunday nights, I might be available during some weeks and I might not be during some other weeks. I guess I'll give you a shout in advance, though I'm pretty sure I'll be staying on campus for the first two weekends.
And I need to get a good look at how my classes are like, so I can't give you a clear answer at the moment. Perhaps I may be able to do so during this upcoming Thursday's night?
Strengths and Weaknesses?
Would my interests and emphases on leaving clues and potentially Chekhov Guns around the chapters within my fics count? In terms of weaknesses, I'm a bit susceptible to writer's block, in a sense.
Hey, I just read the topic and thought it sounded interesting; never really heard of a writers meet like this, so its pretty cool.
I never took any writers course in college but English has always been my strongest subject in high school and a little story of grade 11 English, I was failing miserably because I would always skip a lot, due to personal issues.
However I jumped all the way to a B in English, as I wrote a 7 page essay when it was suppose to be a 1 page and even had a high average 12 English skill.
So I got to shake my English teachers hand in honor and probably will never forget that day.
Anyhow I have been writing ever since I was 6 years old, making up short stories and just living in these wild imagination worlds and had the passion of wanting to express it and share it amongst others to make me feel less crazy, so I started writing novels.
The first story I ever completed was 166 pages long, which was a rough copy (could of been longer). About a teen that always found himself different amongst the others.
His parents were killed and so he started to seek revenge and ended up joining this secret organization amongst other unfortunate teens, who were run-a- ways or orphans. The organization helped trained these teens into fearless, strong assassins.
The main character starts to discover many secrets about himself; how he was a half breed of a demon with super natural powers and was the key to stopping this great battle, that was going to form between hell and earth.
Anyhow I ended up tearing the story apart and throwing it out due to a manic attack and depression, but still have it buried deep in my head and over time it has grown more and more of a storyline; looking to be 3 sequels long, with tons of more characters both good and bad with there own sub stories.
In total I have about 7 novel ideas cramped into my head, but never been able to attempt writing any of them out due to writers block.
Only been able to write short stories... Currently working on a novel based upon my life called "A Search For Freedom". However that will probably never be finished; not for along time, as its basically going to be a huge journal about my life, being built up to a novel.
Anyhow! I do have some weakness in writing and have more to learn, but I believe no one is great alone but amongst others they become more stronger and it is always good to just share ideas, views and such amongst others as well.
Sadly I do not live in Vancouver yet to really show up and participate, as much as I would like to.. Usually I am traveling back and fourth to Vancouver to see my boyfriend and I am heading there also this week for a surgery on my legs, which is going to be hectic and maybe life altering. -.-;
I guess I should also let you know a little about myself. I was born in a small redneck town and never really fitting in with society, as I was always a loner, emo, or freak... I had severe social anxiety, depression and schizophrenia; I started to cope with it by self medicating on all kinds of drugs, which lead me in the worst places in life and I soon discovered Hell personally. Which was the realities of life.
Writing and drawing has always been an outlet to pull out of reality along with the internet. But found it hard to socialize with others, for the fact, I felt so ashamed of myself thinking I am a bad person with bad influences and habits.
I had to go to get off drugs (Uppers) or I would have to go to rehab, so I started getting into working out and for the first time felt so clean and happy; socially acceptable and healthy. However it was all a joke, as I was addicted to the energy of workout supplements and caffeine. It came to the point I knew how to make a drink very close to Crystal Meth legally that I realized I was never healthy.
As I would get manic and just didn't seem like much of a change, besides the fact others thought I was healthy and I had a roof over my head; yet I was just a energy junkie living off disability having other people fooled including myself.
So I started to stop working out as much and mellow myself down with pot.. which helps my mania and keeps me more calm.
I am just starting to accept Hell... "Reality" into my life, instead of running away from it and embrace it through satanism, which helps me feel more comfort knowing the truth in things and empower myself to being my own God and give myself the courage and strength to face my demons and the demons of others without backing down in fear.
: JFoxx September 05, 2011, 01:12:48 -06:00
Hey, I just read the topic and thought it sounded interesting; never really heard of a writers meet like this, so its pretty cool.
(* JFoxx`s message)
hey there JFoxx! ~tail wag~
well, this would be a writing group in Vancouver so if you don't live here yet it may be hard to join up. perhaps give us a shout in the future when you are living here and have your job school rental and all that stuff all worked out and we would be happy to try and help out.
just a few constructive critiques on what you wrote above in great detail - this message is more just to reply interest, you do not need to go into so much detail, but no worries, no judgments ^_^
- most of what you said is true of anyone who is serious about increasing their writing ability, so there isn't much need to explain why you wish to improve to such detail, just knowing you are a fur who is interested in evidence to that fact ~wag~.
- This group is not about fiction creation, that you do yourself. its for learning how to refine writing skills for whatever you write, stories, essays for school, legal documents for work. so we do not need to know your ideas for stories.
- sounds like an interesting concept. i have written fiction for years ( just not that grammatically perfect as i was more focused on expressing my ideas) so not a lot of my stuff is posted or ever will be. We each have 1 million bad paintings/stories to get through before we ever create a good one. its what i have learned as an artist and a writer. Now is the time in my life when i shift focus from art to writing and start practicing. No one becomes a Michelangelo or a Hemingway over night, it takes years and as Carthage pointed out; even after 40 years of applied practice in writing, people still make mistakes.
-Generally though do not worry, we do not need to know your story ideas. however in peer review group you are welcome to mention the things that excite you to write about or that you are working on. Though generally peer review will only review short amounts of text, not entire novels, and this is also so that we can review work from everyone in the group and return with multiple critiques. just to state we are not editors.
~the wolf wags friendly, with a few books in his mouth.~hopefully the information i just went through will help you understand the purpose and what you can expect to get out of peer review. There should be no bar that says no novices allowed, as the whole point is to help each other get better. Just know that you will be expected to study grammar and story structure and other topics in your spare time. We are neither teachers to train you; nor are we editors to fix it all for you. fixing things yourself is the only way anyone learns. though getting tips advice and examples of how to identify errors, is what both peer review and your own study of books will help you progress with. The more you read the more you learn, so in the mean time i am going to give you 4 recommendations that even i will be working on before i form the peer group.
something to do to prepare for a peer group.1) pick up
"elements of style", it is already helping me and should help you.
2) pick up a well reviewed story structure book if you are interested in writing fiction. at the very least
"for dummies" series has a wonderful introduction to writing fiction book that at the very least; you can use as a textbook to help educate you in a variety of concepts.
3) pick up Steven King's
"On Writing" which is a wonderful introduction to a great many things. Part grammar book, part practical story creation, part memoir, part writing industry.
4)another book i recommend (if its still in print, though you may find it off amazon) is
"Thing Feigned or Imagined" by Fred Stenson.
all of the above will only help prepare you and will serve as good reference materials for someone wanting to write professional. there may be better books out there but here is a good place to start shopping. remember its up to you to study and learn in your spare time. peer group is just a much needed second set of eyes on work you feel is your best effort. It is not really a place to give us work you have not already worked your best with; its to take your best and help make it better ^_^. ~wags helpfully~
In addition to the list of books recommended for a peer group, if you own "The Concise Canadian Writer's Handbook" by William E. Messenger, as this would help too.
I'm still actively digging, bones and all, for my stuff from Creative Writing regarding strategies. One of them involved the prof himself presenting a picture, or a slide of pictures, out to the lecture audience as forms of inspiration fuel for writing.
Bah...essays for schools and universities, it really depends not only on your skill at persuading your argument, but for whom you are trying to impress.
I recommend using Google Docs as a form of interactive/collaborative medium to spill our ideas together in our future meetup.
Ah, yea; I will be more than happy to check this out one day, when I do move to Vancouver and get myself all settled and figured out. (Which wont be for some time).
Anyhow, thanks for the information! I will have to take a look into a few of these books you listed in your recommendation; I will defiantly take a look at Stephen Kings "On writing" book, as he is one of my favorite authors.
I may be able to get into something like this at some point. Problem right now is that my productivity for writing outside of work has been thin (my job is writing, editing, layout, etc. - leaves less than a lot of enthusiasm for writing off the job, y'know?) but if I can start cranking out material on a regular basis this could probably be a help.
For now, I'll monitor with interest, though. =)
*bump*
So...Is this group still running? :P
Just noticed it myself. In a Pentictonian, but a mildly avid writer, and I would love to run some stuff past other people and not feel ashamed about it (it's not particularly easy to tell my friends 'Hey, thanks for reading my sci-fi story. Wanna try a gay hyper furry romp next? No?') Not as in forcing all of you to read any of this crap, but as was mentioned, getting tips on style and flow.
Would this group ever be hanging out online?
: Tef September 26, 2011, 01:26:14 -06:00
*bump*
So...Is this group still running? :P
it has not yet started, but i need some time to organize it, i just got back from RF yesterday so i will post sometime in a week or two once things have slowed down again. a lot of work to catch up on.
Sounds cool. Oh, and don't worry, take your time. ^_^
I would love to have something to do with this. :-3
: Icey Dominus December 20, 2011, 02:32:08 -07:00
I would love to have something to do with this. :-3
oh hey there icy. i believe i know you through gismo, you also lived in courtenay/comox too right?
i was a bit slow to start. a few months back (unrelated to writing) i was trying to start up a art jam but not much interest, jimfox also tried). i posted this message around that time because it was on my mind since RF. These days i focus a lot more of my time on writing than art. . currently i am working on a few large works but i kind of abandoned this idea for the moment. perhaps in the future if someone else organizes it as i no longer have time too. I have been in correspondence with someone online since RF2012 for the same reason, but haven't even had time to pursue that route yet.
I have been a bit busy and only just the last week have been getting back on the horse and writing non stop, which has destroyed any free time i have. I am writing over 12 hours a day no less than 5 days a week. currently i am just focused on my own literary ideas in the works, and i am not quiet ready to show. When the time comes i am more likely to hire an editor, then chose what to do with it.
Ahhh okay thats cool I was a little late then lol :-3
I'm still up for it.