BC Furries

 I am posting this, not for this year (to late), but just to get an overall idea of general opinion.

  There has been talk about furries and representation in Vancouver pride. Although there has never been a full poll done on this site as far as I know, about local representation at pride. I do know that the furry community has been represented in other pride parades in places around the world, with a fairly good review and media coverage. What I would ask is that you take a look at what was said about furry representation in pride other places in the world and vote what you think personally without pressure of others in this community. 

Like last year, I still say whatever, leaning towards no. I'm not about to say no, full stop, as its up to the individuals that want to.

I don't care for media attention, positive or negative, and I'd rather furry stay out of mainstream consumption. But in the end, I don't care because I'm not around for the pride parade. /shrug.

I like pride parade.
I like bc furries.

However I don't think I want to see the two in conjunction with one another. There's just something about scantily clad men and women that doesn't sit well with the idea of fur suits. I feel our community is perceived as perverse enough as it is.

Individual suiters are free to do whatever they want. I don't want to see anybody marching with a bc furries sign or anything though.  :P

I can understand the fact that putting furries side by side with scantily clad people and sexually suggestive floats could be a bad thing, however with the amount of people who attend the parade and watch everything go by, I'd be curious as to how many new furries would join us, knowing that we exist. I'm sure there are still quite a few out there that don't know a local furry community exists. I'd say yes just for that fact.

Well...I'm going to say everything is best in moderation...
I have generally stayed away from the pride parade mostly because it's a bit too extravagant. Seeing Furries pulled into the mix kinda seems like going overboard. The parade always was colorful but I think looping Furries into the mix seems a little bit needless...then again my opinions on the pride parade have never been to favorable. I just don't feel, for all it's effort, the parade really speaks what being gay means to me; a quiet walk on Ambleside with your loved one would explain it much easier than five men in rainbow speedos on a float. Adding Furries into the mix would pretty much also not support what furry means to me.

In the end I suppose it's up to the individual. Some people like going out and having fun in the pride parade, I don't blame them, they look like they are having fun. If Furries want a piece of that cake, I guess they can somehow try and find a wayto do so, and I don't think the onlookers would protest, it's all part of the spectacle and fun right? I personally don't see how the two relate to eachother much though...

I am tossing in my two cents worth... I am new so I don't know the dynamic of this group and the people who post here but my suggestion is to just keep having people attending the parade but not put anything official into it.  I think that Pride and Furries are both great things and I saw plenty of furry and furry-friendly people at this year's Pride but I don't think it would be a good entry into the Parade.

I hope this made sense and again I don't know everyone but that was just my individual opinion.  I usually March with the CMBC/CAW 111 float (the big decorated bus).  Did anyone see me this year?  Even though you don't know what I look like I was running around in front of our bus waving and giving out stuff.  It was fun!

.:Raghnall:.

"Respect is the foundation on which all civilization should be built."

I haven't been involved with furs that much to know the dynamics, nor have I ever been to a pride parade.
but from what I can gather is, that the pride parade is kinda like celebrating the stuff that makes us who we are (i'm just pulling this definition out of my ass), so technically speaking there's no reason the fur community can't be represented. An outdated survey I remember mentioned that more than half of the fur community is homosexual (I do not claim the survey is valid, nor up to date, I can't even remember where I saw it).

However, even if we represent ourselves, something as niche as furdom is at risk of being seen as a joke, or at least not taken seriously. There's that risk of overblowing the representation, like we can't be too crazy about things. The problem is, what is 'too crazy?', I dunno.
So I guess careful planning and whatnot, but it's not the first time that furries and pride has been discussed, there was that Simpson's episode with Moe and his gay bar, with the group of furries rooting for him
http://torakhan.livejournal.com/457941.html (http://torakhan.livejournal.com/457941.html)

So technically speaking, Furries could be represented in the pride parade. It'll be as tasteful as everything else that gets there, treated as a niche subculture as much as bears, leather, and what else is celebrated at pride. Of course not all Furs are gay, and Pride is commonly synonymous with the gay lifestyle...and there goes my attention span.

tl;dr. no problem, it'll probably be the same as other sub cultures at Pride

if furries were in the pride parade, they would most likely be the most covered people there ! LOL I too don't attend pride mostly because it doesn't seem to show pride but more ego of sexual fetishes. I would love to see more family orientated floats then the genitals of strangers. But that's just my feeling on it.

I dont think we shouldnt for the reason that people might think all furries, or atleast us here in BC are ALL gay/bi/les. I no there are plenty people on there that are but im sure i cant be the only one that is straight on here. And i dont feel like being mislabled or made fun of, some days it sucks being a red head.

My opinion on this is still the same, Coal; I personally do not want to get dragged into it. I don't give a damn what you personally want to do, but please don't go and try to represent the community at a sexually-charged event in full view of the media. It never, *ever* ends well for the fandom. Never has in past, and it isn't likely to start. Given that Pride itself has been labeled as 'vulgar' by certain moronic media loud-mouths, and admittedly it isn't the most family-friendly event, openly representing an entire community at it without the consent of the vast majority of that community probably isn't a good idea. It might generate PR. You won't get to control what kind of PR it generates (Modern media is nasty that way; They can and will portray you however they want to, by hacking up, editing and otherwise tone-twisting what you've said). It might bring new members. It might also alienate several existing members; There's already fourteen clear-cut "No" votes according to the poll, and at last count, those votes outnumber the "Yes" votes two to one.

As much as I've seen you try and be the voice of a whole community, Coal, please take minimal offense to this? You really don't have the same sort of grasp on past events to understand just why some people are nervous about things like this. I'm personally growing more and more annoyed with you clinging to this peculiar idea of promotion and... well, fandom evangelism. Some of us have been around long enough to remember being tarred by a pretty broad brush held in the hands of someone else claiming to represent "what it's about". It's crass, it's really inconsiderate, and while it probably won't stop, at least consider that it doesn't need to start again here. My annoyance right now has little to do with Pride as your chosen venue, and a lot to do with this weird notion that it somehow has to be promoted, or explained, or otherwise dragged out before the public.

TL;DR?

My fandom isn't your fandom. "Furry" is a different thing for each and every one of us. Representing it as a whole is at best, pasting your label on the rest of us. At worst, it's handing narrow-minded and media-swayed individuals an entire stack of labels, and I'm tired of having to scrape them off conversationally because the latest Chewfox did exactly what you're trying to do despite repeated requests not to.

: Selkit  August 06, 2011, 03:48:22 -06:00
My opinion on this is still the same, Coal; I personally do not want to get dragged into it. I don't give a damn what you personally want to do, but please don't go and try to represent the community at a sexually-charged event in full view of the media. It never, *ever* ends well for the fandom. Never has in past, and it isn't likely to start. Given that Pride itself has been labeled as 'vulgar' by certain moronic media loud-mouths, and admittedly it isn't the most family-friendly event, openly representing an entire community at it without the consent of the vast majority of that community probably isn't a good idea. It might generate PR. You won't get to control what kind of PR it generates (Modern media is nasty that way; They can and will portray you however they want to, by hacking up, editing and otherwise tone-twisting what you've said). It might bring new members. It might also alienate several existing members; There's already fourteen clear-cut "No" votes according to the poll, and at last count, those votes outnumber the "Yes" votes two to one.

As much as I've seen you try and be the voice of a whole community, Coal, please take minimal offense to this? You really don't have the same sort of grasp on past events to understand just why some people are nervous about things like this. I'm personally growing more and more annoyed with you clinging to this peculiar idea of promotion and... well, fandom evangelism. Some of us have been around long enough to remember being tarred by a pretty broad brush held in the hands of someone else claiming to represent "what it's about". It's crass, it's really inconsiderate, and while it probably won't stop, at least consider that it doesn't need to start again here. My annoyance right now has little to do with Pride as your chosen venue, and a lot to do with this weird notion that it somehow has to be promoted, or explained, or otherwise dragged out before the public.

TL;DR?

My fandom isn't your fandom. "Furry" is a different thing for each and every one of us. Representing it as a whole is at best, pasting your label on the rest of us. At worst, it's handing narrow-minded and media-swayed individuals an entire stack of labels, and I'm tired of having to scrape them off conversationally because the latest Chewfox did exactly what you're trying to do despite repeated requests not to.

I have to admit I think I may have been wrong ... this year, I decided that I was going to go to this 'pride' parade and the subsequent displays at Sunset Beach after the parade - with a different perspective; one with a furry angle. I was absolutely shocked!!! I never realized what you were all talking about until I took the time to REALLY see what was going on!
I couldn't believe that the Girl Guides (with all their sexual scandals) were trying to recruit at Pride! Don't get me started on all the religious organizations that are their to push their agenda! We all know what a sex pit Telus is - why they would risk the public exposure by being represented at Pride! I can wait for the fallout of the giant phallic symbol that WestJet paraded down the street (we'll probably hear about that one for years!). didn't they all see the dozens of television cameras and microphones eager to display all their disgusting agendas?  I came home that day eager to watch all the scandal unfold on the television ... to see all the balloons (clearly a way the gays recruit for more of their disgusting lifestyle), loud music (not sure, but I am guessing there is subliminal messaging going on), hand drawn signs taunting us to come and join them in their orgy piles.
I for one would NEVER want our Furry Community to be a part of all that! We should retreat from any public exposure for fear of what the mainstream media could possibly come up (as they did with all the numbers of organizations at this years pride). We need to be careful who we tell and caution anyone planning to hand out fliers at public events - THE MEDIA IS WATCHING!

  Ok guys this is a poll, not a comment thread like the other one that was already closed off by the sysop.  Pride is over for this year, and before the parade a week agoI dropped the discussion. Deciding on my own to attend pride parade, which I did in suit, had a great time of it.  :thumbs:

  The reception I got was incredible and friendly, great fun, open arms and hugs all around. Even been invited to hold an event at one of the clubs, also asked if we would like to help out at some fund raisers.  :highfive:

The basis of this entire argument glosses over a fundamental flaw in the way that furries view their own fandom. There is no shortage of furs who will preach a sanctimonious view that somehow the fandom needs protecting; that this fandom is some holy creation that must be protected at all costs; that the public must view us in a good light.

We are a fucking counter culture.

The whole point of entering into a subculture is that we hold ourselves to different values and views of the world. The obsessive maintenance of public image points to furs attempting for the fandom to gain mainstream acceptance when the entire original point was that we pull away from mainstream people.

So what I recommend is that people take on the following path of action:

1) Stop giving so much of a fuck about how furries are viewed- people will always think that we are weird no matter what we do.
2) Start having more fun with the fandom, and maybe you wont feel so guilty that you're a part of it.

I'm tired of hearing about this...

The bottom line is; Gay pride Parade is a FETISH thing, anyone who says its not is blind. (if you are blind im sorry)

And we don't need Furries to be pushed into the Fetish world anymore then it already is.

: Ember  August 06, 2011, 01:20:58 -06:00
So what I recommend is that people take on the following path of action:

1) Stop giving so much of a fuck about how furries are viewed- people will always think that we are weird no matter what we do.
2) Start having more fun with the fandom, and maybe you wont feel so guilty that you're a part of it.

Y'know what? You're right.

I don't have a problem with furries at pride or furries being a part of the community at large or furries trying to be accepted just as much as everyone else.

My problem is, and throughout this entire debate has always been, a small group of people going out and trying to present themselves as representatives of "The Furry Community."

: Selkit  August 06, 2011, 03:48:22 -06:00
My fandom isn't your fandom. "Furry" is a different thing for each and every one of us.

This is probably the best way of putting it. Furry really does mean different things to each person and having two or three people trying to run a booth explaining what "Furry" is just isn't going to work out. While you can try to explain what it isn't and may even be successful, the best way to have people understand what furry is is for them to learn for themselves. That's something they can only do if they choose to either come to a convention, or become a part of the furry community. Either way, a booth at pride isn't going to work.

I'm glad a few people went out in suit last weekend, and I'm glad the reception was positive. Maybe next year more people will feel comfortable going. That still won't warrant a booth, or pamphlets, or organized representation because we really don't need it and it's obvious that very few people want it.

: Carthage  August 06, 2011, 01:55:59 -06:00
Y'know what? You're right.

I don't have a problem with furries at pride or furries being a part of the community at large or furries trying to be accepted just as much as everyone else.

My problem is, and throughout this entire debate has always been, a small group of people going out and trying to present themselves as representatives of "The Furry Community."

This is probably the best way of putting it. Furry really does mean different things to each person and having two or three people trying to run a booth explaining what "Furry" is just isn't going to work out. While you can try to explain what it isn't and may even be successful, the best way to have people understand what furry is is for them to learn for themselves. That's something they can only do if they choose to either come to a convention, or become a part of the furry community. Either way, a booth at pride isn't going to work.

I'm glad a few people went out in suit last weekend, and I'm glad the reception was positive. Maybe next year more people will feel comfortable going. That still won't warrant a booth, or pamphlets, or organized representation because we really don't need it and it's obvious that very few people want it.

Couldn't agree more! That being said, as a community, we should restrain anyone attempting to hand out fliers or discuss the community as a representative - at ANY function! We all should be able to live by the same rules!

: Karo Dusky Mutt  August 06, 2011, 01:46:59 -06:00
I'm tired of hearing about this...

The bottom line is; Gay pride Parade is a FETISH thing, anyone who says its not is blind. (if you are blind im sorry)

And we don't need Furries to be pushed into the Fetish world anymore then it already is.

Fetish??? REALLY????
20/20 vision here!
If what a person is born as is a fetish, by your own reasoning, the str8 community is a fetish as well ... the whole sexual community on the planet is a fetish!

1) Stop giving so much of a fuck about how furries are viewed- people will always think that we are weird no matter what we do.
2) Start having more fun with the fandom, and maybe you wont feel so guilty that you're a part of it.

  Best words I have seen posted, by me or anyone here, no offence. Very good point, like the days when punk first came out, stop caring what people think about it. Go out be yourself and have fun.

: Gizmo  August 06, 2011, 02:18:56 -06:00
Fetish??? REALLY????
20/20 vision here!
If what a person is born as is a fetish, by your own reasoning, the str8 community is a fetish as well ... the whole sexual community on the planet is a fetish!

Did you read what i posted? "Gay pride Parade is a FETISH thing" And BTW Gay Straight and Bisexuality is a fetish, it involves sex.

: Gizmo  August 06, 2011, 02:18:56 -06:00
Fetish??? REALLY????
20/20 vision here!
If what a person is born as is a fetish, by your own reasoning, the str8 community is a fetish as well ... the whole sexual community on the planet is a fetish!

Okay, that's not what Karo meant, and your sarcasm comes across as rude and blatantly shoving someone else's opinion off to the side.  Read it again.  What he meant was the *parade* represents a lot of gay fetish-type themes.  Just like how Furry represents different things to different people, so does being gay.  There are a lot of gay people out there who do *not* like how the pride parade portrays being gay.  The furry fandom already has an issue with being portrayed as fetish as well.  

My opinion is that if we actually go full throttle and represent Furry in the Pride parade next year, it is very likely that Furry, and our convention will be portrayed as part of the gay/fetish community.  Now, if that's how we *want* to represent ourselves, then great!  But if we are looking to portray something opposite, like family friendly, cartoon animal/comics/puppetry/art/entertainment loving fans of all things anthro-animal, then I feel that we'd be misrepresenting Furry.

Furry means something different to everyone.  If people want to go fursuiting in the pride parade next year, rock on and have fun!  But it is my opinion that no one person or group should actually try to represent Furry as a contiguous group.

 To the sysops, this is a poll not a trolling thread. Enough is enough, keep the poll up or wipe it out. but at least lock the theard, because this is only going to make things worse. Proud to be furry and proud to be gay, always will be always was.

: Master Coal  August 06, 2011, 03:16:24 -06:00
To the sysops, this is a poll not a trolling thread. Enough is enough, keep the poll up or wipe it out. but at least lock the theard, because this is only going to make things worse. Proud to be furry and proud to be gay, always will be always was.

Whos Trolling?

people are just expressing their opinion of this subject.

: JessieTwolf  August 06, 2011, 02:58:54 -06:00
Furry means something different to everyone.  If people want to go fursuiting in the pride parade next year, rock on and have fun!  But it is my opinion that no one person or group should actually try to represent Furry as a contiguous group.

: Gizmo  August 06, 2011, 02:16:17 -06:00
Couldn't agree more! That being said, as a community, we should restrain anyone attempting to hand out fliers or discuss the community as a representative - at ANY function! We all should be able to live by the same rules!

This is fantastic to see. Agreement and consensus about probably the most divisive topic to hit this forum in a long time.

: Master Coal  August 06, 2011, 03:16:24 -06:00
To the sysops, this is a poll not a trolling thread. Enough is enough, keep the poll up or wipe it out. but at least lock the theard, because this is only going to make things worse. Proud to be furry and proud to be gay, always will be always was.

No it isn't a trolling thread, but nobody is trolling. You may have started a poll, and for a while it may have functioned as a poll, but it seems to have become the beginning of the end of a huge argument. People have feelings that clearly need to be expressed. If things in this thread get as out of hand as they have in other threads then a lock may need to be put in place. Until then, there's no reason why people shouldn't be allowed to continue what has been a reasonably civil conversation that is starting to reach a common opinion about how the BC Furry community should represent itself.

It's good to see this. It's important to do this. And we shouldn't stop it now because it isn't just a poll anymore.

Coal, what exactly about this has become a 'trolling' thread? The opinions brought up aren't all aligned with yours, sure, but that's part of healthy discourse. I'm actually honestly a little disturbed that you would simply try to quash the whole thread simply because there's a diverse range of thought expressed.

  I may have used the wrong term, but in a way you are right, it should continue to it's conclusion. Might even do the community some good, as long as it doesn't get to a point where people start saying "so and so is a "blank" and shouldn't be voicing his "blankity blank" opinion" I know for a fact that RainRat or one of the other sysops will lock it if it gets out of control. I retract my other statement about locking it, lets see where it goes. There are over 700 members hear and we have only heard from a few.

  Selkit, valid point, but it has nothing to do with other people voicing their opinion, or in opposition to my opinion. I just don't want to see the community at each others throats.

Might as well throw my two cents into this.

The best analogy I can come up with is comparing the furry fandom to say, a modelling hobby. Is it a fun passtime, and possibly an interesting topic of conversation among friends? Yes.
Is it something you necessarily have to take so much "pride" in, and explain fervently to anyone who will listen to you? I don't think so. Most people don't care, some will ridicule you, and most people don't care (said that one already; reiteration) what you do to occupy your time. If you're having fun with your hobby, great! But an interest in the furry fandom is not something so dramatic or "pride-worthy" as a sexual orientation or gender dysphoria.

tl;dr: "Official" furry representation in such a public forum is to me, ludicrous.

I recently discussed this with a non-fur friend of mine. I asked him what her knew of furry/furs/antros/etc and he said "isn't that a fetish thing." I explained it as a "group of eccentric hobbyists" and compared it to otaku and computer geekery. (That comparison worked because my friend is a big anime fan and game, and understands levels of "fandom" from that.) So I also tend to explain furry as hobby rather than anything else.

And like some one else said, there are lots of tv cameras there and if we did enter into that parade as a group, if we got any bad PR at all, not only could we mess things up for us but also for furries across canada, so what gives us the right to take that chance and possibly have more people look upon us poorly and have other furry groups hate us for screwing things up for them? And we all know how fickle the media can be.

No, wrong venue to break BC Furries into. We dont need to start off in a "fetish" enviroment. So i vote no.

as i've said before, and will say again: i do not think representing ourselves at the Gay Pride Parade is a good idea at this point...

how many people ask questions they already know the answers to?

there are two kinds of people that will be watching the parade, those that think they know what furry is, and those who have no idea. i suppose there are also those who really do know, but i doubt there are many, as the issue here seems to be 'WE MUST PRESENT FURRY TO THE WORLD IN A POSITIVE LIGHT!'

now, those that 'know' what furries are, have likely learned about them from CSI, 1000 ways to die, and similarly marred media portrayals. that said, does anyone think they're going to a.) want to know more about furries, or b.) ask what furries are. no. they're not. because they already feel they are well enough informed. they know the answer and furry has already been defined for them. albeit a skewed representation.

for those that don't know anything about furry, well, here you have fursuits, marching in a parade that's largely fetish based. now, that's not to say everyone there is related to fetishes. telus, girl guides, etc, as Gizmo mentioned, are certainly not kinky organizations, however, we need to take into consideration the fact that organizations like Telus and Girl Guides are all -well established-. everyone knows who they are, and what they're about. then you have other groups and organizations that -are- largely fetish based, that very few people know about, and unfortunately, that's where our group currently falls (as this is the issue we want to address; introducing furry to the public).

Ill try to keep my opinion short and simple.

Im not Gay. I am a fur. I am not the only straight Fur.

If you are gay and a fur, I think it would be awesome to go to Pride in suit or as a Furry, sounds like a ton of fun! (I was with a group that did that last year!) But please don't go and be an unelected representative of a group im involved in and promote that group as something its simply not.

Adverstising ourselves in a venue like pride basically says "Furry is gay" (as was said earlier because Furry is not a well established entity in the public mind). Any sensory input you give to people at this point in the fandoms progression  is what a majority of people who haven't heard of it will assume it is. Be it a fetish, or a gay group, or whatever (you would also basically be suggesting to people that vancouFur is a gay convention).

I am proud to be a furry. If I was gay I would be proud to be gay. I try not to hide who I am from anyone in my life. So I say Go, have fun! Be a fur in public! But please don't misrepresent who I am.

: Akonite  August 10, 2011, 12:27:12 -06:00
Ill try to keep my opinion short and simple.

Im not Gay. I am a fur. I am not the only straight Fur.

If you are gay and a fur, I think it would be awesome to go to Pride in suit or as a Furry, sounds like a ton of fun! (I was with a group that did that last year!) But please don't go and be an unelected representative of a group im involved in and promote that group as something its simply not.

Adverstising ourselves in a venue like pride basically says "Furry is gay" (as was said earlier because Furry is not a well established entity in the public mind). Any sensory input you give to people at this point in the fandoms progression  is what a majority of people who haven't heard of it will assume it is. Be it a fetish, or a gay group, or whatever (you would also basically be suggesting to people that vancouFur is a gay convention).

I am proud to be a furry. If I was gay I would be proud to be gay. I try not to hide who I am from anyone in my life. So I say Go, have fun! Be a fur in public! But please don't misrepresent who I am.

REVEREND!!! *throws fist in the air*

I would have to agree, I'm too a straight fur as well, but I'm am still being asked the same questions from most of my friends of why I chose to be...well furry. But I tell them that its not just the fetishes that make up the fandom, its the appreciation of anthropomorphic animals as a whole, and all the mediums behind the context. (drawing, music, etc) 

This is what makes this fandom unique, I think.

Just a FYI: The PNW furs tried to hold a place in the Seattle pride parade. It was a total disaster. Both logistically and from a meia perspective.

Also, i'm sure that most suiters recognize this, but, its just not good to have a suit that's known to take part in pride, especially if they like suiting elsewhere.

And, again, I don't want more media spectatcle, especially at an event like this.

And here we go again, more arguing, JUST DROP IT. i dont like looking at negative bloody comments on something that has happened before and had multiple turn outs.

Yes there have been furs in pride, yes the media MAY fuck us over and yes it has happened ONCE but what makes you think it will ALWAYS happen.

Again not choosing sides but your attitudes on a simple question is just outlandish, yes we are entitled to our opinions but we dont need to make a thread that 3+ pages long with all you saying the exact thing over and over again.

in this world there are several groups Gay bi trans striaght etc, and there are sub groups called ALLIES, homophobes, and hetrophobe, you cant be more then one in these sub groups so pick a side: Are you the type that treats gays like normal people and vice versa, or are you completely afraid of gays or are you afraid of straights

BUT as a sub note: what is your issue people? keep it to one word, Media issue, Social relations, misinterpation of you being (and only you, not using the term BEINGS as in FURS in general)


cuz as i see it you all are defending your own tails and not the entire furmunnity, so what is it? you speaking for yourself or the entire community cuz i will tell you right now not everyone has the same opinion themselves about being a FUR...

I think it's safe to assume most people are speaking for themselves, it just so happens the majority of us share the same opinion.

Though you may be right in that perhaps this has gone on long enough, pride parade is over with for this year. You're the second furson to claim people are trolling in this thread.

Maybe this should be locked now?  ???

: Wolf Shade  August 10, 2011, 10:19:05 -06:00
And here we go again, more arguing, JUST DROP IT. i dont like looking at negative bloody comments on something that has happened before and had multiple turn outs.

Yes there have been furs in pride, yes the media MAY fuck us over and yes it has happened ONCE but what makes you think it will ALWAYS happen.

Again not choosing sides but your attitudes on a simple question is just outlandish, yes we are entitled to our opinions but we dont need to make a thread that 3+ pages long with all you saying the exact thing over and over again.

in this world there are several groups Gay bi trans striaght etc, and there are sub groups called ALLIES, homophobes, and hetrophobe, you cant be more then one in these sub groups so pick a side: Are you the type that treats gays like normal people and vice versa, or are you completely afraid of gays or are you afraid of straights

BUT as a sub note: what is your issue people? keep it to one word, Media issue, Social relations, misinterpation of you being (and only you, not using the term BEINGS as in FURS in general)
Snshs

cuz as i see it you all are defending your own tails and not the entire furmunnity, so what is it? you speaking for yourself or the entire community cuz i will tell you right now not everyone has the same opinion themselves about being a FUR...

I don't think you get the broader picture. How our so called community is perceived changes how people treat us. This affects how people will want to deal with us, such as business deals with the convention hotel or bowling. I'd rather be more unknown over the other possibility of being rejected.

And, you have the choice whether to read this forum topic. Use it. Don't go hating on something you can avoid.

i could of avoided it yes, so could everyone else but decided not to

as I said in the my message you quoted, we are all entitled to opinions. As am i to mine... as for community... you want the community to be represented as it should then crawl out of your dens and get out there

The entire thread was based around getting out of cover, not just cuz there are gay furs straight furs or allies. it was changing the view that people have... but if it is really an issue...

Canada Day parade next year?

I hope locking it doesn't become necessary. Although the parade is over for this year, it's going to come up again next year.

Although there seems to be opposition to representing our group in the parade, I don't think anyone is saying you can't fursuit representing yourself, or march with some other group you belong to.

[gmod] Also, personal attacks, no matter how veiled(including calling people a troll), will result in action taken against the attacker.[/gmod]

: RainRat  August 10, 2011, 11:23:38 -06:00
Although there seems to be opposition to representing our group in the parade, I don't think anyone is saying you can't fursuit representing yourself, or march with some other group you belong to.

Precisely. Though, I'd ask said other group first too.

: RainRat  August 10, 2011, 11:23:38 -06:00
Although there seems to be opposition to representing our group in the parade, I don't think anyone is saying you can't fursuit representing yourself, or march with some other group you belong to.

I agree as well but it is still why make such a argument about this parade when there are thousands of other parades in BC and no one mention one? But i did read about the zombie walk... (i am SO in *tail thuds*)

I'm also on a tablet here, so bear with the double post...

: Wolf Shade  August 10, 2011, 11:23:08 -06:00
i could of avoided it yes, so could everyone else but decided not to

as I said in the my message you quoted, we are all entitled to opinions. As am i to mine... as for community... you want the community to be represented as it should then crawl out of your dens and get out there

The entire thread was based around getting out of cover, not just cuz there are gay furs straight furs or allies. it was changing the view that people have... but if it is really an issue...

Canada Day parade next year?

I want the community to be represented in a light that is beneficial, but not some façade that hides everything. Pride just gives the wrong first impression to onlookers. I also don't really care about being "out there" either. Had I the choice, I'd keep furry just as it stands right now, which is mostly in the dark to the rest of the world. But, I do realize that it is a greedy, unrealistic opinion. I just ask that people respect that this is not a way I wish to be displayed and associated with the local furry community.

Parades are possibly fine, depending on what they depict.

: Accophox  August 10, 2011, 11:45:48 -06:00
I want the community to be represented in a light that is beneficial, but not some façade that hides everything. Pride just gives the wrong first impression to onlookers. I also don't really care about being "out there" either. Had I the choice, I'd keep furry just as it stands right now, which is mostly in the dark to the rest of the world. But, I do realize that it is a greedy, unrealistic opinion. I just ask that people respect that this is not a way I wish to be displayed and associated with the local furry community.

Parades are possibly fine, depending on what they depict.

like canada day?

Wolfshade, just as you've said before effectively demanding that anyone with a negative opinion ought to shut up, we represent ourselves. However, not all of us are going to agree with you; According to current poll numbers, if it's a representative sampling of the community, 68% of us, do not want to be represented at Pride. 10% and change more don't have a strong enough opinion to say yes. A large number of us don't really want to be represented at all, Pride, anywhere or otherwise for that matter, because again, furry is a personal thing. Just like you yourself said earlier in the thread and just like I've said earlier in the thread. My fandom is not your fandom. Furry is not the same thing to you and me; I would really rather we not have yet another person going "Furry is" to the media, anywhere at all.

Go to Pride, or Canada day, or wherever. Have fun. But don't claim to speak for an entire community.

: Selkit  August 10, 2011, 12:06:15 -06:00
furry is a personal thing. Just like you yourself said earlier in the thread and just like I've said earlier in the thread. My fandom is not your fandom. Furry is not the same thing to you and me; I would really rather we not have yet another person going "Furry is" to the media, anywhere at all.

Go to Pride, or Canada day, or wherever. Have fun. But don't claim to speak for an entire community.

now that is a quote

as i said (and selkit hit the nail on the head) everyone is entitled to an opinion, just keep it your opinion and dont speak for others

Wolfshade,

you're right, there are other parades we can represent ourselves at, and on that note, i completely agree. i think it would be awesome to show up in suit promoting VancouFur or the BC Furries in general, at parades with a family theme. Canada Day, the Christmas Parade, and other such events. but WITH THE COMMUNITY'S APPROVAL. that is, the majority of furs saying 'that would be fine' or 'i don't mind'.

no one here is saying 'don't show up at the pride parade at all in suit or as a furry!' we're saying 'don't represent us as a group there.' this was the same issue with the last thread that -was- locked.

you need to realize that those defending the negative argument are not the ones who brought up either of the posts on this subject, and are simply stating their opinions on the matter.

the media hasn't screwed us over 'once'. i can count five incidents off the top of my head where the media got their hands on furry and ripped into us. i realize that a major reason some furries want to represent themselves is this exact issue; we want to clear our name. however, you need to choose the correct venues to do this.

has anyone considered how much of a benefit things like Bowling, Skating and Helping Paws are to us? suiters. in public. having fun in a family setting. i believe these events are far more helpful in clearing the furry name than showing up at a parade and handing out leaflets, looking like we're trying to sell something or convert people to some very odd looking religion.

*sigh*

Im not sure when people giving their personal opinions became arguing. Just because different people have different opinions doesnt mean they are arguing. I see no one here making fun of another's post.

I think its great that this has not been locked. I think it was important to be able to have my personal opinion heard, and not muted by a locked thread. You shouldn't ask for a thread to be locked just because the outcome is slipping away from the direction you personally were hoping for. As was said above, keep it your personal opinion - meaning if someone disagrees with you they are not being "negative" only expressing the opposite opinion as you and is a fairly basic right.

As for the Canada Day parade, I would be WAY more inclined to see furry represented in a forum like that. I think that kind of venue is MUCH different than pride. IN almost every way actually. You would probably have a much more balanced outcome if that was the parade that you were talking about, but its not. However, This thread is specifically about pride, so i dont think its fair to throw a Canada Day Parade argument in here. (Though it may be interesting to see a Canada Day thread to note the changes in opinions.)

SO as Wolfshade is saying himself, lets keep this going in the civil manner it already is, and keep it to facts and personal opinions and keep the bickering to ourselves (Including you Wolfshade). We all have different opinions, and i believe this is one of the most interesting and civil conversations I have yet seen on this forum. Im impressed that there can be so many different ways of looking at it and for the most part people are being very mature. Good on us!  :hug: :thumbs:
On a side note,

: Apoxon  August 10, 2011, 12:38:22 -06:00
Has anyone considered how much of a benefit things like Bowling, Skating and Helping Paws are to us? suiters. in public. having fun in a family setting. i believe these events are far more helpful in clearing the furry name than showing up at a parade and handing out leaflets, looking like we're trying to sell something or convert people to some very odd looking religion.

That is an amazing point Apoxon. People like Tai and Zen who are making an effort to have public events in these kind of settings is exactly the spirit of spreading the community we are talking about in this thread. Good on both of them and others who are doing similar things like it.

: Master Coal  July 28, 2011, 04:04:50 -06:00
I am posting this, not for this year (to late), but just to get an overall idea of general opinion.

I thought i'd bring the very first line of the thread up again to quell some of the concern. Note that it is asking us all for our opinions. Even if your opinion has been stated by someone else, id love to hear it again from you.

Everyone's voice is important, even if its in unison with someone else's.

Again, this is an extremely interesting thread. I hope to hear more civil opinions, from both sides of the discussion!  :) :hug:

I've been keeping an eye this thread, and I have not felt the need to lock it at this point.

You may have noticed I have a mostly hands-off approach to moderation (mostly...) - when I get some free time I may do a writeup on my personal philosophy surrounding moderation, of course not necessarily shared by any fellow moderators, whose own moderation actions I fully support.

Small events have a larger impact than huge events. You also forgot about the community critters fursuit group that attends many events from parades to open house events.omg so hard to post via cell.

: Unition  August 10, 2011, 01:49:04 -06:00
I may do a writeup on my personal philosophy surrounding moderation, of course not necessarily shared by any fellow moderators, whose own moderation actions I fully support.

LMFAO. Say that 3x fast.

Before we bring the helping paws name farther into this thread or any thread, they are NOT associated with furry at all.

Helping Paws is a NON FURRY group. They try VERY HARD to not be associated with furry.

(I am not a part of helping paws so, if a helping paws member wants to clarify more they can)

beg pardon to Helping Paws. i stand corrected.

Community Critters, then?

BUT as a sub note: what is your issue people? keep it to one word, Media issue, Social relations, misinterpation of you being (and only you, not using the term BEINGS as in FURS in general)

Accurate representation.

Would you consider the furry fandom to be well represented by the following statement: "A bunch of gay fetishists into animals"

If you do then representing furries in an official manner at gay pride doesn't make sense, particularly if you have a sensationalist media that can and will pidgeonhole the fandom into the most dramatic definition possible. Given that most of the people here seem to agree that representing the fandom at gay pride would end up misrepresenting what the fandom is you have to respect that and stop trying to insult people for having a different opinion from your own.

If we're going to try to represent the fandom in any official manner we're going to have to take public perception and context in mind, I know that some may wish to rebel and ignore whatever the general public thinks but there's no point trying to represent the fandom if we're not going to address public perception. The vote speaks pretty clearly to the community's thinking that Gay Pride isn't the right context to start showing ourselves to the public at large, this doesn't mean you can't attend just that you shouldn't be saying you're representing the whole community many of which won't be there.

Also thanks Unition for monitoring this thread and keeping things open as there's pretty clearly a fair bit of laundry to air over this.

This would be getting too off topic if we started discussing the nuances of Helping Paws or Community Critters here.

If you would like to see the original thread for Community Critters, it is: http://www.bcfurries.com/forum/index.php?topic=243.0 (http://www.bcfurries.com/forum/index.php?topic=243.0)

And yeah, I'd have no problems with Canada Day. But that's not the issue at hand.

: Selkit  August 10, 2011, 12:06:15 -06:00
Go to Pride, or Canada day, or wherever. Have fun. But don't claim to speak for an entire community.

Well said. I am all for a group entry in the Canada Parade, what does everyone else say?

/edit/
Can we get a topic split for a Canada Day entry thread?

Yeah, just start a new thread for the Canada Day idea. There wouldn't be a good introduction to the new thread if I just split out a couple posts from here.

I think my thoughts on this matter are best summed up by a Marshall McLuhan: "The medium is the message."

To break the quote down, that means that no matter what the context of your message is, the medium in which it is presented is part of the message and will shape its perception.

As many have mentioned, promoting 'furry' at an event will cause the promotion of furry to carry all the stigma and traits of the events it is promoted at. There really is no way around this. Also, this doesn't go only for aforementioned event but any event in general.

No matter where we show up, we do have to consider the environment around the event and what messages, both obvious and subliminal, are going to be attached on to our message by sending it through that channel.

I personally do not think a parade is the best way to 'spread' furry. In fact, I do not think furry needs to be 'spread' but rather sought and found. We should be accessible, but not shoving our image in to the limelight or trying to 'convert' people. Which also brings up a curious question of why we see ourselves as needing to 'spread' furry? Do we feel something is missing? Is there a belief we lack in numbers? Do we feel there is something beneficial of trying to push the notion of furry out in to the populace?  I am curious to hear the responses to this, but that would be a topic for another thread.

A parade is fine to attend as a group if we want to present ourselves as a form of entertainment; that we are out there to please other people. A parade isn't really a forum for recruitment and shouldn't be treated as such. Yes, recruitment can occur from people seeing us at the event but you will have to realize those people will have this notion that we are out there to be entertainers and are to be treated like such. Currently, I feel being seen as a form of entertainment is part of the problem since the media uses 'furry' as an exploitable form of entertainment by focusing on the negative aspects.

Other groups do attend parades that aren't a form of entertainment, but they either already have an established image or present themselves in a way that is not entertaining i.e. a banner on a vehicle or just a line of people marching along, not doing much. Going out in suits and dressing up will hold the stigma of the other performers that are out there just to please people, a thing to be consumed rather than perhaps an alternative lifestyle.

I think panels at conventions and, as previously mentioned, just going out and having fun is a much more productive way of handling our promotion if we must promote. People seeing us being us, enjoying ourselves, being generally a good natured in our actions, and looking like a fun loving group is a much more powerful message sent along the medium of a person's own perception. It's a much more raw representation of who we are and, as always, actions speak louder than words.

Everyone is certainly free to go to these events if they are out their being an individual, or representing their own small pocket in consensus. Just, as mentioned, don't claim to represent anything beyond the scope of yourself and those who chose to attend if the general consensus is people do not wish an association.

This is my opinion on the matter.

You should go to the pride parade because you're gay, not because you're a furry. Furries are not all gay, nor does the fandom need to be represented at such an event and branded in that kind of a way.
Save your fursuits for fur-friendly events.
Just because the people at pride parades are open minded about their sexuality, does not mean they are open minded about furries!