This is a personal subject for me and I'm curious about others opinions:
I for one don't drink at all - never have never will. I have many reasons for this and I'll shock you to give you some perspective; My dad destroyed his liver and died due to alcohol intoxication.
My question is simply this: can you attend a furmeet without the need for alcohol?
This message is biased but I want to see how much it matters to people in this context (furmeets).
Hi Babycheetah,
This was a matter of quite some contention a bit ago. Hopefully that you've approached the question in such a respectful manner will help keep it more civil this time around.
The community conscious was that it was up to the host whether or not alcohol was allowed at their meet. The attempts to instill a global policy one way or another caused the largest conflict in recent memory.
If you are asking on a personal level whether it is possible to feel comfortable at a furmeet without drinking, then the answer is yes! Not everyone in attendance has the desire to drink and you'll find no shortage of peers who have the same views as you do.
Well, I know in prince george we easily have LOTS of furmeets withought alcohol, and a few with. And its all the same attendees, it's something that I think should be no issue. You don't need it to have a good time, it's rare that we do, and if we do? It's generally not a full on fur meet to be honest.
I say yes you can easily have furmeets withought alcohol. ^.=.^
If I bring beer, you can bring root beer. Nobody will give a damn who is drinking what and everyone's happy. =P
I don't see why people feel pressured when alcohol is present, especially when it's being drank casually. I can understand peoples' dislike for drunken-antics and people being total idiots under the influence, but I like to promote alcohol consumption on a more casual, appreciative level. I encourage other liquor-enthusiasts to do the same.
I will be just as happy attending a meet with or without alcohol, provided the people themselves are suitable for social consumption. However, given the freedom, I much prefer alcohol-permitted meets; The crowd tends to be older as a rule, and I think I've said elsewhere before, I fit in quite poorly with the younger crowd. I am not liable to bring masses of liquor to a meet and drink myself to oblivion; That's hardly fun at all, and no one in their right mind enjoys doing the two-liter yawn. However, given the choice, I will happily mix tasty drinks, and enjoy them in moderation with like-minded individuals.
The problem with big furmeets with alcohol is some people get very out of hand. Some realize this, and will change their consumption habits for future meets. Some... won't. And that's when it starts sucking.
But as for whether alcohol at meets is necessarily a bad thing? No. I think you can have one with/without and still have a good time. I'd just prefer if those that really don't know their limits (alcohol poisoning/throwing up) or become abrasive (violent/destructive) over the course of the evening didn't show up.
I know that my experience with alcohol in dorms has certainly coloured my view on it... I find it refreshing that there isn't cardboard on the ground Saturday mornings anymore (usually indicating somebody's vomit), after the administration cracked down hard during my second year. And my security deposit is returned in larger chunks each year too. And, actually being able to get work done in my room... :)
Fuzzy,
What you said about those that don't know their limits is exactly what I've noticed.
Those that do drink and don't know their limits is a problem, yet they THINK they're fine. This is why there are many accidents that happen! The fact that teh alcohol directly affects their judgement is a big problem when trying to reason with such individuals. Unfortunately in my experience, most people i've known who drink ALWAYS abuse there limit and make a total ass of themselves. Maybe its because I live downtown and I can clearly see the ones that go overboard on a weekly basis. Its pretty well 50/50% of those that are "screwed up" with alcohol, and the rest are fine. I saw right in front of me a girl literally fall out of a taxi lying on the street! Right in the middle of the road!! She was totally wasted. SHe chose that path, no one forced her to get that way.
What I've found amusing is how many people defend drinking as if its some neccesity in life. Or its some personal insult if they are asked not to drink. The attachment "disorder" I've seen is unbelivable how certain people defend the booze as if its a life saver. I have literally had people argue with me saying that drinking alcohol is no different/worse then drinking coffee.. give me a break! Do you see cops pulling people over to give you a breathalizer for cafine intake? hell no!
I had a feeling that sooner or later, this would turn into a tee-totaller's rant against alcohol. As you have explicitly said yourself, they chose that for themselves, in the irresponsible over-consumption of an otherwise legal substance. I choose not to overindulge, personally, as a matter of due responsibility, and have only done so at any point, once. During that point, I still saw fit to accept help as given, and after a very unpleasant vomiting spell, rested it off quietly. You make two broad assumptions which really, honestly annoy me, and I will not remain silent about them. I will address it point by point:
50/50 on responsible to irresponsible drinkers? I believe you are overinflating the issue. You also assume that the general public drinking at a club for the purpose of conspicuous consumption as opposed to social enjoyment at a gathering, will share the same tendencies as attendees at an event. Sorry, but this just isn't the case; there will be bad apples in the bunch who will display their irresponsibility, and then they will as a rule, be denied participation in further events, or watched and regulated by their peers. This community is not so large that word does not get around about particularly egregious incidents.
Defend drinking as if it's a necessity? Excuse me? You're implying that anyone who even casually drinks has some form of addiction or other dependancy, and I may point out that it's exceptionally crass of you to brush over a large portion of the population as addicts simply for in most cases, regulated and legally permissible enjoyment of a casual vice. If an event is drinking or no drinking, then that really is a choice of the host, and of the attendee to respect; There are other social faults with an individual who insists on attacking a host solely because the host has chosen rightfully not to permit drinking at their event, not some strange attachment disorder in most cases. That individual is not a drunk, they are a dick.
It's puritanical and crude of you to expect that the rest of the world will share your total abstinence view, simply because you have exhibited some form of moral outrage or another, on any grounds. Some of us have the attitude that liquor is simply another flavor and culinary tool, others cannot get through a day without a bottle (I have yet to see a true honest to goodness case of alcoholism in the fandom; irresponsible binge drinking is another matter, but nowhere near as problematic as you present it), but the reality is? I have the societal freedom to drink in places where it is permissible legally and socially to do so, in a responsible fashion, and I will do so heedless of your judgemental attitude. It's a host's prerogative to permit alcohol service or deny it as they see fit, and similarly, whether or not they choose to permit alcohol consumption, you can choose -not- to drink. You'll do fairly well to be somewhat more tolerant of people's personal choices; Failing that, simply do not attend alcohol-permissible events.
Selkit impresses me more and more.
My response in italics: Selkit December 18, 2010, 06:11:33 -07:00
I had a feeling that sooner or later, this would turn into a tee-totaller's rant against alcohol. As you have explicitly said yourself, they chose that for themselves, in the irresponsible over-consumption of an otherwise legal substance. I choose not to overindulge, personally, as a matter of due responsibility, and have only done so at any point, once. During that point, I still saw fit to accept help as given, and after a very unpleasant vomiting spell, rested it off quietly. You make two broad assumptions which really, honestly annoy me, and I will not remain silent about them. I will address it point by point:
You respond with a suggestion that my view angers you, correct? You shouldn't get upset with certain point of views, its not worth it. I find it very interesting that you add in the comment "an otherwise legal substance". Are you trying to validate that its ok? Why would you say that? Do you know that even though certain things are legal, they can still be harmfull?
50/50 on responsible to irresponsible drinkers? I believe you are overinflating the issue. You also assume that the general public drinking at a club for the purpose of conspicuous consumption as opposed to social enjoyment at a gathering, will share the same tendencies as attendees at an event. Sorry, but this just isn't the case; there will be bad apples in the bunch who will display their irresponsibility, and then they will as a rule, be denied participation in further events, or watched and regulated by their peers. This community is not so large that word does not get around about particularly egregious incidents.
Not conspisious consumption AS OPPOSED to, but WITH social enjoyment. its not one or the other.
Defend drinking as if it's a necessity? Excuse me? You're implying that anyone who even casually drinks has some form of addiction or other dependancy, and I may point out that it's exceptionally crass of you to brush over a large portion of the population as addicts simply for in most cases, regulated and legally permissible enjoyment of a casual vice. If an event is drinking or no drinking, then that really is a choice of the host, and of the attendee to respect; There are other social faults with an individual who insists on attacking a host solely because the host has chosen rightfully not to permit drinking at their event, not some strange attachment disorder in most cases. That individual is not a drunk, they are a dick.
An addict is only someone who cares more about the percentage of alcohol in their drink rather then just having any drink. You go way in the deep end for exagerating my view, making like i'm some angry mob with signs wanting to ban anyone that sips an alcoholic drink. About your comment on "the attendees to respect" when alcohol is allowed in an event... I'm specifically talking about those that do not respect that, and that is NOT an uncommmon occurance.
It's puritanical and crude of you to expect that the rest of the world will share your total abstinence view, simply because you have exhibited some form of moral outrage or another, on any grounds. Some of us have the attitude that liquor is simply another flavor and culinary tool, others cannot get through a day without a bottle (I have yet to see a true honest to goodness case of alcoholism in the fandom; irresponsible binge drinking is another matter, but nowhere near as problematic as you present it), but the reality is? I have the societal freedom to drink in places where it is permissible legally and socially to do so, in a responsible fashion, and I will do so heedless of your judgemental attitude. It's a host's prerogative to permit alcohol service or deny it as they see fit, and similarly, whether or not they choose to permit alcohol consumption, you can choose -not- to drink. You'll do fairly well to be somewhat more tolerant of people's personal choices; Failing that, simply do not attend alcohol-permissible events.
Irresponsible binge drinking is not another matter, its an example of precicely what I believe as a stupid thing to do. Why you are defending the fact that I think drinking accessively is a bad idea is rather surprising. How you think its a personal attack is rather ammusing since I never pointed a finger at anyone.
: Selkit December 18, 2010, 06:11:33 -07:00
I had a feeling that sooner or later, this would turn into a tee-totaller's rant against alcohol. As you have explicitly said yourself, they chose that for themselves, in the irresponsible over-consumption of an otherwise legal substance. I choose not to overindulge, personally, as a matter of due responsibility, and have only done so at any point, once. During that point, I still saw fit to accept help as given, and after a very unpleasant vomiting spell, rested it off quietly. You make two broad assumptions which really, honestly annoy me, and I will not remain silent about them. I will address it point by point:
50/50 on responsible to irresponsible drinkers? I believe you are overinflating the issue. You also assume that the general public drinking at a club for the purpose of conspicuous consumption as opposed to social enjoyment at a gathering, will share the same tendencies as attendees at an event. Sorry, but this just isn't the case; there will be bad apples in the bunch who will display their irresponsibility, and then they will as a rule, be denied participation in further events, or watched and regulated by their peers. This community is not so large that word does not get around about particularly egregious incidents.
Defend drinking as if it's a necessity? Excuse me? You're implying that anyone who even casually drinks has some form of addiction or other dependancy, and I may point out that it's exceptionally crass of you to brush over a large portion of the population as addicts simply for in most cases, regulated and legally permissible enjoyment of a casual vice. If an event is drinking or no drinking, then that really is a choice of the host, and of the attendee to respect; There are other social faults with an individual who insists on attacking a host solely because the host has chosen rightfully not to permit drinking at their event, not some strange attachment disorder in most cases. That individual is not a drunk, they are a dick.
It's puritanical and crude of you to expect that the rest of the world will share your total abstinence view, simply because you have exhibited some form of moral outrage or another, on any grounds. Some of us have the attitude that liquor is simply another flavor and culinary tool, others cannot get through a day without a bottle (I have yet to see a true honest to goodness case of alcoholism in the fandom; irresponsible binge drinking is another matter, but nowhere near as problematic as you present it), but the reality is? I have the societal freedom to drink in places where it is permissible legally and socially to do so, in a responsible fashion, and I will do so heedless of your judgemental attitude. It's a host's prerogative to permit alcohol service or deny it as they see fit, and similarly, whether or not they choose to permit alcohol consumption, you can choose -not- to drink. You'll do fairly well to be somewhat more tolerant of people's personal choices; Failing that, simply do not attend alcohol-permissible events.
Selkit ... you ROCK!
: Selkit December 18, 2010, 06:11:33 -07:00
I had a feeling that sooner or later, this would turn into a tee-totaller's rant against alcohol. As you have explicitly said yourself, they chose that for themselves, in the irresponsible over-consumption of an otherwise legal substance. I choose not to overindulge, personally, as a matter of due responsibility, and have only done so at any point, once. During that point, I still saw fit to accept help as given, and after a very unpleasant vomiting spell, rested it off quietly. You make two broad assumptions which really, honestly annoy me, and I will not remain silent about them. I will address it point by point:
50/50 on responsible to irresponsible drinkers? I believe you are overinflating the issue. You also assume that the general public drinking at a club for the purpose of conspicuous consumption as opposed to social enjoyment at a gathering, will share the same tendencies as attendees at an event. Sorry, but this just isn't the case; there will be bad apples in the bunch who will display their irresponsibility, and then they will as a rule, be denied participation in further events, or watched and regulated by their peers. This community is not so large that word does not get around about particularly egregious incidents.
Defend drinking as if it's a necessity? Excuse me? You're implying that anyone who even casually drinks has some form of addiction or other dependancy, and I may point out that it's exceptionally crass of you to brush over a large portion of the population as addicts simply for in most cases, regulated and legally permissible enjoyment of a casual vice. If an event is drinking or no drinking, then that really is a choice of the host, and of the attendee to respect; There are other social faults with an individual who insists on attacking a host solely because the host has chosen rightfully not to permit drinking at their event, not some strange attachment disorder in most cases. That individual is not a drunk, they are a dick.
It's puritanical and crude of you to expect that the rest of the world will share your total abstinence view, simply because you have exhibited some form of moral outrage or another, on any grounds. Some of us have the attitude that liquor is simply another flavor and culinary tool, others cannot get through a day without a bottle (I have yet to see a true honest to goodness case of alcoholism in the fandom; irresponsible binge drinking is another matter, but nowhere near as problematic as you present it), but the reality is? I have the societal freedom to drink in places where it is permissible legally and socially to do so, in a responsible fashion, and I will do so heedless of your judgemental attitude. It's a host's prerogative to permit alcohol service or deny it as they see fit, and similarly, whether or not they choose to permit alcohol consumption, you can choose -not- to drink. You'll do fairly well to be somewhat more tolerant of people's personal choices; Failing that, simply do not attend alcohol-permissible events.
Great smackdown! Now what do we do about the issue at hand? What is to be done about drinking at meets?
As someone who learned his tolerance the hard way, I think the best way to measure consumption would be to not bring such huge quantities and containers in the first place.
Instead of banning people from attending, why not reason out how drunk someone wants to get and bring smaller bottles where possible?
I think Selkit blew things outta proportion here... but taken as it stands, it's also true.
And Oryx: I dunno, but if I were a host, and somebody threw up on my carpet/floor/whatever, I'd be rightly pissed. There's some wiggle room, depending on the person, but in most cases, I wouldn't want to risk that person coming to another event I'd be hosting and throwing up on something else, at least for a couple months. As like last time, drinking is up to the host to decide, and how to regulate it... and whether to kick/ban people out of/from the locale if they become too much of a nuisance to deal with.
As far as alcohol goes, it's just one of those things in life that people choose(/not) to enjoy. I enjoy the casual drink. I don't enjoy overconsumption, but realize that some people do. But whatever (with some exceptions) happens to those people while they're overindulging - they deserve it.
The reasonable thing to "do about" drinking at meets (And keep in mind, the ultimate choice for any "do about" is the host's), is to have a qualified and provincially certified individual do drink service, both to ensure there is a sober chaperone, and an individual recognized by the province as having the knowledge to know when to cut someone off, how to serve drinks safely, and so on. Dangerous drunkenness is caused by an individual doing something outside their tolerance; There's a significant difference between 'peaceably drunk after pacing' and 'drunk after a quadruple shot of vodka'. Simply allowing everyone to have at their own bottles is not a problem around experienced drinkers who understand their tolerance. It's a problem around nineteen or twenty year olds who have only recently been able to legally drink, and are not fully in touch with their own limitations.
Last night's event with Gizmo, was an example of an event with drinking, without issue; Later on, things did turn into a bit of a cuddlepile, but there was no angry drunkenness, the expectation was that any strong liquor would be self-provided by the drinker, and BYOB does tend to mitigate crash binging. When you paid for the booze yourself, you tend not to hammer through it, based on cost. Free-for-all bars are not a good idea at events, if they're stocked with liquor and unmonitored by a responsible individual. To all event-hosts, I would suggest you find a volunteer who has their BC SIR certificate to do drink-service, check ID through that volunteer, and either require a cash-bar or a contribution of liquor/drink to the bar for service. That individual will have been tested and certified by the province to serve safely, recognize the signs of intoxication, and one would hope, not do anything stupid like serve undiluted, ignited Everclear shots.
Responsibility is the key word, drinking or no drinking.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record here, I pretty much agree with everything Selkit said.
I've always thought it was a bit - interesting - how different drinking is in societies that are less puritanical about it. I think when people grow up having had it around, they don't end up seeing it as some wondrous forbidden substance that must be the best thing ever, and as such they tend to have a more responsible attitude toward alcohol consumption.
And seriously, 50-50 responsible to irresponsible drinkers? Try 90-10, if even that. Think about it - which makes a more interesting story, 'I got drunk and wrecked my car' or 'I had a few drinks and got a bit tipsy, but handled it responsibly and nothing bad happened'? You don't hear the stories where people drank responsibly because they're uninteresting and don't occasion comment.
Hell, I'm drinking a beer right this minute and I've only fallen off my chair three times! ;)
Hmm... I have a bit of a compromise in mind
What about having an "Alcohol limit" at a meet? The host could set a particular limit on the total alcohol brought to the location(and has a fridge handy to keep track) and everything over that can be kept in a storage bin and given out as raffles as people are ready to leave? This way it allows people who are social drinkers to socially drink and also those who overindulge will sap the rest of the liquor supply for the rest of people, and then possibly have to pay for drinking their liquor.
It may not be a perfect solution, but it's at attempt at reaching a middle ground. I do believe the host would be entirely in his/her rights to restrict the flow of the substance as they see fit, especially to be a "bartender" to those who are known over indulgers. Or have someone who isn't a drinker be a bartender as well.
: LudroLycandrel December 20, 2010, 08:08:00 -07:00
Hmm... I have a bit of a compromise in mind
What about having an "Alcohol limit" at a meet? The host could set a particular limit on the total alcohol brought to the location(and has a fridge handy to keep track) and everything over that can be kept in a storage bin and given out as raffles as people are ready to leave? This way it allows people who are social drinkers to socially drink and also those who overindulge will sap the rest of the liquor supply for the rest of people, and then possibly have to pay for drinking their liquor.
It may not be a perfect solution, but it's at attempt at reaching a middle ground. I do believe the host would be entirely in his/her rights to restrict the flow of the substance as they see fit, especially to be a "bartender" to those who are known over indulgers. Or have someone who isn't a drinker be a bartender as well.
That's really not a compromise, and it is not effective. Limiting quantity will do very little to curtail a quick binge. Someone going from sober to four drinks in the span of five minutes will likely banging into walls and near vomiting in fifteen to twenty more. Someone who has had eight drinks paced carefully over the evening, and mediated it with water, will be carrying on with a peaceable conversation, carrying only a mellow buzz. Quantity served has little to do with irresponsible drinking (I believe at Gizmo's meet, I went through more than half a fifth of Polish vodka, a fair amount of homemade wine, and several shots, but moderated it with nonalcoholic liquids and a very slow drinking pace; I was still walking around uninhibited at the end of the event, 8 hours later). Had I binge-drank that quantity in one go, I'd have been in serious trouble and well on my way to an alcoholic coma.
The only way to properly restrict the flow of liquor is to restrict the speed at which it is served, which basically requires that you have a sober, or responsible bartender with a good sense of self-restraint, to do drink service. The appropriate solution, is to permit individuals to bring their own booze, and have it placed under the care of a responsible tender, who will serve it to them upon request, and deny them upon their judgement, while obeying provincial service laws. This is not to say that a private event strictly requires a provincially certified tender, mind you, but they are qualified and tested for safe-service knowledge. Even if you limit how much an individual can bring to an event, if you do not limit how it is handled, that individual can simply drink their friend's drink, or otherwise simply outpace their ability to handle the alcohol in the first place. Having a certified bartender mitigates most of the risks, and there are individuals in the community with their provincial SIR (I'm numbered among them). I'm sure some of them would volunteer for the task.
: BabyCheetah December 18, 2010, 05:43:06 -07:00What I've found amusing is how many people defend drinking as if its some neccesity in life. Or its some personal insult if they are asked not to drink. The attachment "disorder" I've seen is unbelivable how certain people defend the booze as if its a life saver. I have literally had people argue with me saying that drinking alcohol is no different/worse then drinking coffee.. give me a break! Do you see cops pulling people over to give you a breathalizer for cafine intake? hell no!
Do you see cops pulling people over to give you a breathalizer for cafine intake? hell no!No, but I have seen people roll their vehicles on the way home from work because they drank so much coffee during the day that their awareness and reflexes had tanked and they fell asleep at the wheel. Happened to a guy at my work, no joke. Also, caffeine is a diuretic, like alcohol, and it causes your body to dehydrate and limits the nutrient-intake from the food you ate around the time you consumed it. I can definitely argue that alcohol is no worse than drinking coffee seeing as I drink both and I know the positive and negative effects of each of them. Do you eat cheeseburgers? Pizza? Drink coke? Don't even get me started on how much WORSE those substances are for you than, say, a beer. Or an O.J. with a shot of vodka. Or a finger of scotch. =P
Seriously... if someone at a furmeet isn't acting like an idiot because they're drunk, they'll be acting like an idiot
because they're just an idiot. There will never be a perfect world of people with a set standard level of intelligence and social skills, it's just not happening. Alcohol or no, I guarantee that there will be several social events you'll go to that will contain at least one (1) dickhead who is making an ass of him/herself and making others feel uncomfortable.
I will defend casual and social alcohol-consumption because it's one of the few remaining freedoms I have in a country that attempts to idiot-proof everything by banning (rather than educating people on) normally-harmless activities and substances that someone went overboard on and killed/severely injured themselves. I'm happy to have my beer-a-day (and the occasional party-night) because I
can and
do enjoy it.
As I said before: if you don't like alcohol, don't drink it. If there's a creep who is drunk out of his/her tree and is making you feel uncomfortable, ask them to knock it off and bug somebody else. If that doesn't work, you can either get verbal on them or get someone (the host) to help you out.
: Naetholix December 22, 2010, 09:14:48 -07:00
I can definitely argue that alcohol is no worse than drinking coffee seeing as I drink both and I know the positive and negative effects of each of them.
Looks like someone had one too many this morning. I'm not joking either (and no, I'm not talking about one too many coffees).
: Selkit December 21, 2010, 12:32:19 -07:00
: LudroLycandrel December 20, 2010, 08:08:00 -07:00
Hmm... I have a bit of a compromise in mind
What about having an "Alcohol limit" at a meet? The host could set a particular limit on the total alcohol brought to the location(and has a fridge handy to keep track) and everything over that can be kept in a storage bin and given out as raffles as people are ready to leave? This way it allows people who are social drinkers to socially drink and also those who overindulge will sap the rest of the liquor supply for the rest of people, and then possibly have to pay for drinking their liquor.
It may not be a perfect solution, but it's at attempt at reaching a middle ground. I do believe the host would be entirely in his/her rights to restrict the flow of the substance as they see fit, especially to be a "bartender" to those who are known over indulgers. Or have someone who isn't a drinker be a bartender as well.
That's really not a compromise, and it is not effective. Limiting quantity will do very little to curtail a quick binge. Someone going from sober to four drinks in the span of five minutes will likely banging into walls and near vomiting in fifteen to twenty more. Someone who has had eight drinks paced carefully over the evening, and mediated it with water, will be carrying on with a peaceable conversation, carrying only a mellow buzz. Quantity served has little to do with irresponsible drinking (I believe at Gizmo's meet, I went through more than half a fifth of Polish vodka, a fair amount of homemade wine, and several shots, but moderated it with nonalcoholic liquids and a very slow drinking pace; I was still walking around uninhibited at the end of the event, 8 hours later). Had I binge-drank that quantity in one go, I'd have been in serious trouble and well on my way to an alcoholic coma.
The only way to properly restrict the flow of liquor is to restrict the speed at which it is served, which basically requires that you have a sober, or responsible bartender with a good sense of self-restraint, to do drink service. The appropriate solution, is to permit individuals to bring their own booze, and have it placed under the care of a responsible tender, who will serve it to them upon request, and deny them upon their judgement, while obeying provincial service laws. This is not to say that a private event strictly requires a provincially certified tender, mind you, but they are qualified and tested for safe-service knowledge. Even if you limit how much an individual can bring to an event, if you do not limit how it is handled, that individual can simply drink their friend's drink, or otherwise simply outpace their ability to handle the alcohol in the first place. Having a certified bartender mitigates most of the risks, and there are individuals in the community with their provincial SIR (I'm numbered among them). I'm sure some of them would volunteer for the task.
At least we have the "responsible bartender" concept agreed upon. And yes, I did have the SIR in mind as a better qualification, although there may be some people who have priviously completed SIR yet don't have the liscencing anymore(I was one of them as well, but that was long ago enough that I have forgotten almost all my learning) Why don't we see if there's anyone in the community who would generally volunteer for such an event? That would a good litmus test for how feasible this particular idea would be.
Another issue as well is the people who, even with a minute amount of consumption, cease to be civil drunks and are of larger sizes than some of the SIR furs. I hope there hasn't been an occasion where a fur has had to be "ejected" from a meet, but I could see that happening. Your thoughts?
: BabyCheetah December 22, 2010, 11:52:25 -07:00
: Naetholix December 22, 2010, 09:14:48 -07:00
I can definitely argue that alcohol is no worse than drinking coffee seeing as I drink both and I know the positive and negative effects of each of them.
Looks like someone had one too many this morning. I'm not joking either (and no, I'm not talking about one too many coffees).
Are you going to provide rational responses or just cast aspersions on those who do? :)
If you think Naetholix gave a rational and truthful response then you are way off. I loose respect to those that blantantly make faulse statements. Therefore I will no longer participate in this disgussion.
: Silvermink December 22, 2010, 03:17:52 -07:00
: BabyCheetah December 22, 2010, 11:52:25 -07:00
: Naetholix December 22, 2010, 09:14:48 -07:00
I can definitely argue that alcohol is no worse than drinking coffee seeing as I drink both and I know the positive and negative effects of each of them.
Looks like someone had one too many this morning. I'm not joking either (and no, I'm not talking about one too many coffees).
Are you going to provide rational responses or just cast aspersions on those who do? :)
: LudroLycandrel December 22, 2010, 01:52:01 -07:00
At least we have the "responsible bartender" concept agreed upon. And yes, I did have the SIR in mind as a better qualification, although there may be some people who have priviously completed SIR yet don't have the liscencing anymore(I was one of them as well, but that was long ago enough that I have forgotten almost all my learning) Why don't we see if there's anyone in the community who would generally volunteer for such an event? That would a good litmus test for how feasible this particular idea would be.
Another issue as well is the people who, even with a minute amount of consumption, cease to be civil drunks and are of larger sizes than some of the SIR furs. I hope there hasn't been an occasion where a fur has had to be "ejected" from a meet, but I could see that happening. Your thoughts?
I believe it would be a good idea at some point in time. I have a valid and up to date SIR, personally; I would happily volunteer to serve at an event (I've been itching for an excuse to bring out my little black bar book). Regarding ejection of any problem, I cannot remember any incident in recent memory where anyone, sober or not, has gotten physical. I believe that's a non-issue; It is not the bartender's responsibility to physically eject someone from an event, and doing so could be construed as assault, for that matter. If an issue has gotten severe enough to mandate physical contact, the police should be called.
: BabyCheetah December 22, 2010, 04:20:10 -07:00
If you think Naetholix gave a rational and truthful response then you are way off. I loose respect to those that blantantly make faulse statements. Therefore I will no longer participate in this disgussion.
: Silvermink December 22, 2010, 03:17:52 -07:00
: BabyCheetah December 22, 2010, 11:52:25 -07:00
: Naetholix December 22, 2010, 09:14:48 -07:00
I can definitely argue that alcohol is no worse than drinking coffee seeing as I drink both and I know the positive and negative effects of each of them.
Looks like someone had one too many this morning. I'm not joking either (and no, I'm not talking about one too many coffees).
Are you going to provide rational responses or just cast aspersions on those who do? :)
Firstly, I'd like to ask what it was that I said which caused you to drop such an idiotic comment. I haven't had anything so much as a beer since Saturday, so your accusation is as inaccurate as it is childish—as well as it completely strips you of any credibility in your future posts hereafter.
Being a type-1 diabetic for 8 years, I see health and medical specialists once a month to make sure my blood-sugars are in-check. On the subject of alcohol and diabetes, my doctor and my dietitian have both made sure to lecture me upside-down and sideways about it. That being said, I also regularly query them about different foods and substances and what their effects are on my body, and they freely educate me on things like caffeine and alcohol. When posing an argument, it's good to at least have some knowledge in the subject that you're arguing or else you'll look like a fool. With access to free knowledge as I have, I try my best to educate others with what I learn. I
do have a good understanding of the pros and cons of alcohol and many other controversial substances that we ingest and I believe I make a damn good objective argument with that information.
Your original question began subtly enough. On the outside, it looks hypothetical even though you admit your own personal bias, which is okay. Someone commented in your favor and you began adding more of your own personal bias into the subject. Then others attempted to bring it back into an objective point-of-view and that's when you started getting all butthurt. I think you created this thread with hopes that some people would comment in support of your anti-alcohol campaign to help you feel a sense of camaraderie and belonging. Instead it backfired and people started arguing for the other half of the debate (Gasp! A debate with
two sides!). You took these legitimate and hypothetical responses as a personal insult and began rambling obscurities to try and further defend your failed attempt at gaining support towards your cause, which ultimately led to you retreating from further scrutiny.
All I have done is attempt to provide scientific insight and life-experience to your already heavily-biased opinion, and all you have done is throw it back in my face because you are defending a personal belief rather than fact. Regardless of your inability to see reason and logic, I
was content and willing to continue with this discussion in a civil manner for the sake of healthy debate until I witnessed you accusing me of being a drunk and a liar. That in itself immediately branded you as a childish brat in front of all the users reading this thread, and I no longer feel the need to attempt to educate you since I realize that it would fall on deaf ears.
I hope, for your sake, that you will one day realize that not everyone is going to agree with your opinions and that you don't need to publicly insult those who prefer to argue their side of it... or, at the very least, that you'll one day learn to check your spelling.
Yeah, pretty much what Naetholix said. BabyCheetah, you came into this discussion with a chip on your shoulder and are leaving with it still firmly in place. Sorry you didn't find the support you were looking for, but I just don't think your opinion is well-considered and your personal attacks aren't helping your case.
I understand you have a bad history with alcohol, and have a negative view of it as a result. I think using it as an explanation of your existing views is one thing and understandable, but lashing out at those who disagree and blithely refusing to consider any other viewpoint than your own is not.
Having been to furmeets back in the day (which was not so long ago, in the mysterious land, of Toronto, Canada... where Scott Pilgrim was dating a high schooler; okay no, I'm kidding, seriously) where alcohol was involved and was NOT involved, I'm going to agree with the alcohol limit idea with Ludro on this one.
In hindsight, I have seen quite a few folks who were out of hand after being drunk, at both furmeets and fur conventions, and I've acted out of hand a few times myself after overindulging, sure, but let's face a few things here. Yes, people are stupid before and after they've had about four Appletinis, but not everyone is stupid. Some can be smart and act like an idiot after being hammered, some can be dumb and then turn smart, and some can still remain smart, even after having a few (now there's a mental image that's totally rare).
If the government wants to put a ban on booze, go ahead and let them try. Everyone will complain about it, like we're doing to the HST, even though it's in referendum.
: Mikau Seafox December 31, 2010, 01:39:56 -07:00If the government wants to put a ban on booze, go ahead and let them try. Everyone will complain about it, like we're doing to the HST, even though it's in referendum.
I think the US government tried that once and it didn't go too well. ;)
If anything it'll provide organized crime another excuse to fill the air full of bullets... but that's a tangent for another time
: Mikau Seafox December 31, 2010, 01:39:56 -07:00
Having been to furmeets back in the day (which was not so long ago, in the mysterious land, of Toronto, Canada... where Scott Pilgrim was dating a high schooler; okay no, I'm kidding, seriously) where alcohol was involved and was NOT involved, I'm going to agree with the alcohol limit idea with Ludro on this one.
In hindsight, I have seen quite a few folks who were out of hand after being drunk, at both furmeets and fur conventions, and I've acted out of hand a few times myself after overindulging, sure, but let's face a few things here. Yes, people are stupid before and after they've had about four Appletinis, but not everyone is stupid. Some can be smart and act like an idiot after being hammered, some can be dumb and then turn smart, and some can still remain smart, even after having a few (now there's a mental image that's totally rare).
If the government wants to put a ban on booze, go ahead and let them try. Everyone will complain about it, like we're doing to the HST, even though it's in referendum.
Not to, um... point out your massive hypocrisy in saying that, Mikau, but you yourself openly stated you had come to Gizmo's new years party yesterday "To practice your drinking".
I believe that further reinforces my point that limitation is not the issue, but responsibility and self-restraint.
Well I have no say in the matter because Ive never been drunk. However I have no negative feelings for those who have.
Be Happy everyone
OFFICIAL VIDEO - "BEER!" by Psychostick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-jOEAufDQ4#)