: Sairys April 29, 2010, 02:40:41 -06:00
: Soda April 29, 2010, 11:13:39 -06:00
lol Sairys.. Come on Foundation! >:D
sorry Im not a fan of vegetarian dishes I tend to stay away from them due to nasty experiences with nasty tasting food. *goes back to read the reviews* I have a feeling Iam going to be sitting there with only a coke.
When was the last time you tried REAL vegetarian food? Kithop and I cook vegetarian food you'd never know was vegetarian. Plus about every ten months to about two years vegetarian food makes a huge leap due to wonderful scientific advances. If you tried it a year ago, it wouldn't be the same today. Besides, you can do what I did at the Red Robin meet. I went and had nothing and sat with friends. Red Robins has nothing vegetarian but I still went to enjoy my friend's company. And when you go with a bunch of people to a vegetarian restaurant, you can try a whole bunch of different things from their plates! Plus they will serve things you'd eat normally. Fries, nachos and cheese, etc. ^_^
PS you should come over one time and try our veggie food. Honest! We had vegetarian Poutine and Kitten, Red, and Dman Mike all loved it! Home made fries and everything!
: Star Wonder May 01, 2010, 06:55:06 -06:00
: Sairys April 29, 2010, 02:40:41 -06:00
: Soda April 29, 2010, 11:13:39 -06:00
lol Sairys.. Come on Foundation! >:D
sorry Im not a fan of vegetarian dishes I tend to stay away from them due to nasty experiences with nasty tasting food. *goes back to read the reviews* I have a feeling Iam going to be sitting there with only a coke.
When was the last time you tried REAL vegetarian food? Kithop and I cook vegetarian food you'd never know was vegetarian. Plus about every ten months to about two years vegetarian food makes a huge leap due to wonderful scientific advances. If you tried it a year ago, it wouldn't be the same today. Besides, you can do what I did at the Red Robin meet. I went and had nothing and sat with friends. Red Robins has nothing vegetarian but I still went to enjoy my friend's company. And when you go with a bunch of people to a vegetarian restaurant, you can try a whole bunch of different things from their plates! Plus they will serve things you'd eat normally. Fries, nachos and cheese, etc. ^_^
PS you should come over one time and try our veggie food. Honest! We had vegetarian Poutine and Kitten, Red, and Dman Mike all loved it! Home made fries and everything!
I don't mean to be rude here but... What is wrong with eating meat anyway?
: Star Wonder May 01, 2010, 06:55:06 -06:00
: Sairys April 29, 2010, 02:40:41 -06:00
: Soda April 29, 2010, 11:13:39 -06:00
lol Sairys.. Come on Foundation! >:D
sorry Im not a fan of vegetarian dishes I tend to stay away from them due to nasty experiences with nasty tasting food. *goes back to read the reviews* I have a feeling Iam going to be sitting there with only a coke.
When was the last time you tried REAL vegetarian food? Kithop and I cook vegetarian food you'd never know was vegetarian. Plus about every ten months to about two years vegetarian food makes a huge leap due to wonderful scientific advances. If you tried it a year ago, it wouldn't be the same today. Besides, you can do what I did at the Red Robin meet. I went and had nothing and sat with friends. Red Robins has nothing vegetarian but I still went to enjoy my friend's company. And when you go with a bunch of people to a vegetarian restaurant, you can try a whole bunch of different things from their plates! Plus they will serve things you'd eat normally. Fries, nachos and cheese, etc. ^_^
PS you should come over one time and try our veggie food. Honest! We had vegetarian Poutine and Kitten, Red, and Dman Mike all loved it! Home made fries and everything!
Also what Tamaska said. And why are you being so defensive about vegetarian cuisine? >.<
I'm no stranger to Vegetarian cuisine. The Chinese know how to do tofu in ways that make it very palatable while still remaining in the confines of it. As well as other vegetarian dishes in general (just look at Buddhists, they've got a 2000 year head start). But... in the end I still don't feel complete after a meal without something that contains a bit of meat in it.
Ruling out meat removes so many possibilities from dishes. Nothing within vegetarian cuisine will ever create a peking duck's texture and skin from roasting... or the firm, yet delicate flavour of yellowtail... or the juicy/savory aspects of a rack of lamb. If and when vegetarian cuisine can recreate these qualities... I'll be more than willing to give vegetarian cuisine a try again.
Edit:
Also: dug up reviews for the top most voted restaurant - I wouldn't eat there: http://dinehere.ca/vancouver/foundation-the (http://dinehere.ca/vancouver/foundation-the) - horrendous service, chef doesn't know his way around sugar (everything seems to be oversweeted), and it's just vegetarian fare.
: Tamaska May 01, 2010, 08:21:14 -06:00
I don't mean to be rude here but... What is wrong with eating meat anyway?
: Accophox May 02, 2010, 12:47:25 -06:00
Also what Tamaska said. And why are you being so defensive about vegetarian cuisine? >.<
I'm no stranger to Vegetarian cuisine. The Chinese know how to do tofu in ways that make it very palatable while still remaining in the confines of it. As well as other vegetarian dishes in general (just look at Buddhists, they've got a 2000 year head start). But... in the end I still don't feel complete after a meal without something that contains a bit of meat in it.
Ruling out meat removes so many possibilities from dishes. Nothing within vegetarian cuisine will ever create a peking duck's texture and skin from roasting... or the firm, yet delicate flavour of yellowtail... or the juicy/savory aspects of a rack of lamb. If and when vegetarian cuisine can recreate these qualities... I'll be more than willing to give vegetarian cuisine a try again.
Edit:
Also: dug up reviews for the top most voted restaurant - I wouldn't eat there: http://dinehere.ca/vancouver/foundation-the (http://dinehere.ca/vancouver/foundation-the) - horrendous service, chef doesn't know his way around sugar (everything seems to be oversweeted), and it's just vegetarian fare.
I'm defensive because no one seems to understand it. At all. And every year more and more progress is made about turning tofu into things even meat eaters love. There are people who love meat but are allergic to animal, and they have to eat substitutes but don't want to give up meat. Tofu and stuff are perfect for them. Every year tofu is improving. More and more and more. In five years who knows, they could perfect your so called yellowtail and what not. I'm not telling people to not eat meat. I'm telling people to stop isolating vegetarians and veggie cuisine based on a past experience and boycotting it entirely!
As a confirmed carnivore, I'm fine with vegetarian food - I cook veg stirfry now and again and have used tofu. I'd be fine with a reasonable vegetarian restaurant (when I can get over the whole anxiety thing and get to a meet again =P ), myself.
I think Star's being defensive because there's a lot of 'vegetarian? ick!' kind of sentiment in this thread. that seems to happen when vegetarianism comes up amongst meat-eaters. Good chefs can do good vegetarian meals, tofu- and other meat replacements have really matured.
Simple fact is that some people do eat vegetarian, whether it's a personal choice (I've got three of those in my office that I know of) or a dietary requirement. It's worth considering it in these polls - if a veg. restaurant turns up as the winner once, then give it a shot, and next month vote for Spike's All-Meat Bonanza Buffet or something. =)
: Star Wonder May 02, 2010, 06:47:36 -06:00
I'm defensive because no one seems to understand it. At all. And every year more and more progress is made about turning tofu into things even meat eaters love. There are people who love meat but are allergic to animal, and they have to eat substitutes but don't want to give up meat. Tofu and stuff are perfect for them. Every year tofu is improving. More and more and more. In five years who knows, they could perfect your so called yellowtail and what not. I'm not telling people to not eat meat. I'm telling people to stop isolating vegetarians and veggie cuisine based on a past experience and boycotting it entirely!
I was really asking your reason... if your allergic then all the power to ya! but... if your not... Why not just eat meat?
I've had a good number of vegetarian friends, and I've always noticed that they get defensive whenever the subject comes op for one specific reason: people are always questioning them on why they are vegetarian, and pushing them to eat meat.
Whether it be dietary restrictions or personal choice we each eat what we do for our own reasons. I'd love to see some vegetarian choices on the poll. I'd be more inclined to go to a meet at a place like that over Red Robins myself.
I'm not vegetarian myself, I'll eat just about anything I can get my hands on, I just really like their style of cooking. Mind you, the only thing keeping me from becoming one is my love of blue steaks. They figure out a way to mimic that, and I might just shift.
I mean, given that star seems to be environmentally conscious, I'd say her noneating of meat stems from that...
And, not in a hundred years will they be able to make synthetic fish that tastes the same as the real thing...
: Accophox May 03, 2010, 02:21:27 -06:00
I mean, given that star seems to be environmentally conscious, I'd say her noneating of meat stems from that...
And, not in a hundred years will they be able to make synthetic fish that tastes the same as the real thing...
I don't know about that, Science is amazing.. We can grow meat already... it just comes out as a sorta... protein jelly :(
: Star Wonder May 02, 2010, 06:47:36 -06:00
There are people who love meat but are allergic to animal,
I work in a restaurant Star, and as such I deal with some pretty rediculous allergies. In seven years not once have I heard of someone being allergic to an animal. Shellfish sure, that's a well documented allergen. Pork is a common religious taboo, but not an allergy.
I would very much like you to provide a documented case of someone being -allegergic- to an animal other than fish or shellfish. If you're going to be making a statement like that one, that's the least you could do.
: Carthage May 03, 2010, 12:41:50 -06:00
: Star Wonder May 02, 2010, 06:47:36 -06:00
There are people who love meat but are allergic to animal,
I work in a restaurant Star, and as such I deal with some pretty rediculous allergies. In seven years not once have I heard of someone being allergic to an animal. Shellfish sure, that's a well documented allergen. Pork is a common religious taboo, but not an allergy.
I would very much like you to provide a documented case of someone being -allegergic- to an animal other than fish or shellfish. If you're going to be making a statement like that one, that's the least you could do.
s'like, hypersensitivity to wifi signals! :p
Not to barge in, but proof of meat allergies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_allergy#Rare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_allergy#Rare)
http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthissues/foodintolerance/foodintolerancetypes/meatallergy/ (http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthissues/foodintolerance/foodintolerancetypes/meatallergy/)
The first is an obligatory Wikipedia link. The second is a UK government health website. Sure, it's a rare allergy, but it's not impossible.
I also know two people who are allergic to eggs, which are technically a meat product.
: Grace May 03, 2010, 01:48:13 -06:00
Not to barge in, but proof of meat allergies:
http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthissues/foodintolerance/foodintolerancetypes/meatallergy/ (http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthissues/foodintolerance/foodintolerancetypes/meatallergy/)
I don't recall saying anywhere that it -couldn't- happen. Only that I had never seen or heard of a case, and that I wanted to see evidence. So far all this shows is that the uk health authority thinks that a meat allergy can cause all the same reactions any other allergy can cause. Keep trying.
And eggs are an animal product, yes, but are not considered a meat product by anyone but the strictest vegitarians and vegans.
: Carthage May 03, 2010, 05:41:08 -06:00
I don't recall saying anywhere that it -couldn't- happen. Only that I had never seen or heard of a case, and that I wanted to see evidence. So far all this shows is that the uk health authority thinks that a meat allergy can cause all the same reactions any other allergy can cause. Keep trying.
And eggs are an animal product, yes, but are not considered a meat product by anyone but the strictest vegitarians and vegans.
I admit that eggs aren't always completely considered a meat product by most people. As for the rest of your statement, well...
: Carthage May 03, 2010, 12:41:50 -06:00
Pork is a common religious taboo, but not an allergy.
This is saying straight-up it doesn't happen (for pork, at least), which is pretty much the same as saying it couldn't. I don't know if you intended for it to come across that way, but, well, there it is.
: Carthage May 03, 2010, 12:41:50 -06:00
I would very much like you to provide a documented case of someone being -allegergic- to an animal other than fish or shellfish.
You said that you wanted proof of it happening, which is what I provided. Level of severity was not requested. However, even if it only causes "all the same reactions any other allergy can cause," that's still not something most people would want. "Any other allergy" can cause all sorts of incredibly unpleasant experiences -- hives, nausea, light-headedness -- the list goes on. I doubt there are too many people out there who'd be willing to eat beef, for instance, knowing full well that they'll be covered in an unbearably itchy rash shortly thereafter.
I'm certainly not trying to get on your case; I just find it rather frustrating when people attempt to argue a point without checking their facts. In this instance, a meat allergy could very well be a reason for someone to turn to a more vegetarian-inspired diet, even if it's only the 1 in 1000 (or whatever the statistics may be) who's allergic to beef, pork,
and chicken.
Getting a bit more on topic, this discussion stemmed from restaurant choices for a Vancouver dinnermeet, correct? Is there a particular reason that the restaurants chosen for the meet can't be those that offer both vegetarian- and omnivore-friendly dishes? I mean, even White Spot has vegetarian alternatives.
Just to let you know that most vegetarians eat eggs, dairy and fish but its vegans that eat NO ANIMAL products including dairy and eggs
And @ carthage no to single anyone out but there is a local furry that is allergic to/unable to digest meat protein.
As much as my opinion doesn't really matter to the discussion at hand, my own beliefs on this boil down to:
- We have evolved to be omnivorous - we can eat lots of things, both vegetables and meat, and acquire nutrients from them.
- Animals feel pain, have emotions, form bonds (even inter-species) with others, and have various rudimentary forms of communication.
- Growing/raising animals for meat is much more energy and water intensive, per gram of resultant protein, than protein-rich vegetable crops like soy, other legumes, etc. Beef is one of the 'worst', chicken is better, but still pales in comparison.
- As a species, we already have a tremendous demand for energy and water as-is; meat-eating is part of it, though not all of it.
I had been thinking of going vegetarian since I was in my early teens; I've had emotional responses to meat-containing meals that my parents and peers dismissed as 'just being silly'. When Star decided to go completely vegetarian a few months ago, I did it along with her initially just for ease of cooking and eating meals together; if it works for her, it can work for me, right? The environmental and 'moral' concerns were icing on the cake to the simple convenience of only having to cook one set of meals.
Now that I've become used to it over the past few months, honestly,
I don't even miss meat, not even bacon. :O It actually puts me off, thinking about eating it. I'm more comfortable eating vegetarian alternatives, be it made with soy (i.e. tofu), wheat (i.e. seitan), or a combination of the two processed as a meat analogue.
That said, what people eat is their own personal choice. If you want to/are used to eating meat, that's perfectly cool. Everyone else in the house cooks and eats meat, and it's fine (provided they clean the common dishes/utensils thoroughly afterwards, of course). Inadvertent cross-contamination isn't the absolute end of the world, IMO, as the point isn't 'omg eww don't let it touch me', it's not purchasing/supporting meat and its production in general. However, from what I understand, the point of the dinner meets is more the
meet, over dinner. Many places offer at least a few vegetarian options amongst the standard meat-containing fare, which is cool - we should at least be holding ourselves to that group as to be as inclusive as possible, just as we would expect to be going to places that can accommodate someone with a food allergy (e.g. my dad has celiac and is thus allergic to the gluten found in wheat, oats, and so forth, so he has to be very careful when eating out). I think it's unfair to consider restaurants that are completely, 100% carnivorous in their offerings as candidates for dinner meets just as it would be unfair to go somewhere that serves/cooks everything slathered in peanut butter if we had a few furs that were deathly allergic to peanuts.
I don't think we're asking a whole lot here - I'm not saying we have to go to Foundation all the time (I've been once; the nachos are amazing, but yeah - they're complete and utter hipster snobs), or a vegetarian Buddhist-Chinese place, or anything like that - we're
not trying to deny meat-eaters anything; we just want to be able to participate, hang out with our friends, and be included. Yeah, places like White Spot may have what - two, three options for us, tops? That's fine; it's
something so we're not completely left out. Would you guys treat someone with a legitimate food allergy the same way? 'Oh, sorry - guess you can't come this month.' Voting, while good to get a general feel and guideline, is not the be-all and end-all of decision making. There's a reason 'true' democracy doesn't work, the same as 'true' communism or insert-system-here (see tyranny of the majority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority)), and why we have things like minority rights.
I have nothing against people who eat meat, or don't, or whatever their beliefs are - I just want to be able to be a part of these functions, especially when we're a definite non-zero percentage of the fandom and the population at large. I'm not vegetarian to spite anyone; I'm not trying to 'convert' anyone - honestly, it's your body, your health, your life, your conscience, and your
decision, any more than someone with a peanut allergy is trying to 'convert' their friends to avoiding peanuts..(?!) it just doesn't make sense, it's preachy, and generally not well-received regardless. I do take offence to people ridiculing us for our choice just as one would take offence to someone criticising your sexual orientation -
it's a personal choice that involves quite a bit of commitment, and all we're asking for is some respect and decency so
everyone can feel included and be a part of the community, regardless of a multitude of factors - orientation, religion, dietary, etc.
Furries.
To start with, I have a cousin who suffers close to anaphylactic shock when he comes into contact with meat/meat products, including eggs and milk. So it is very real and potentially fatal.
The same is the case with some of the synthetic meat substitutes used in vegetarian cooking. I too have an intolerance to one (or more) of them. It matters little how many "scientific advances" have been made in vegetarian cuisine; it will only result in more, not less, such intolerances and allergies coming to the forefront. Still, when going to a vegetarian restaurant, how is the non-vegetarian to know if that textured blob of fake meat is going to launch them into a shock-induced coma?
This is very true, and exactly why I like places that offer options for everyone, and can cater to people with allergies or other dietary requirements, be it religious or otherwise. n.n I'm not trying to champion one thing vs. another, but inclusiveness.
: Kithop May 03, 2010, 10:39:13 -06:00
: Ember May 03, 2010, 10:27:40 -06:00
Furries.
+1 :p
+2 :p
: Kithop May 03, 2010, 10:22:11 -06:00I do take offence to people ridiculing us for our choice just as one would take offence to someone criticising your sexual orientation - it's a personal choice
Sexual orientation is
not a choice.
Good one, linking to the Tyranny of the Majority, however. I was thinking just that, except this isn't even about the majority. Look at last month; 29 votes cast, the winning restaurant had only 7 votes, and only 16 people turned up. Oh well, such is the nature of FPTP (http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/first_past_the_post.htm). On the other hand, who wants to write an SMF mod to implement STV, AV+, or AMS?
: Rukario May 03, 2010, 11:43:07 -06:00
: Kithop May 03, 2010, 10:39:13 -06:00
: Ember May 03, 2010, 10:27:40 -06:00
Furries.
+1 :p
+2 :p
: Kithop May 03, 2010, 10:22:11 -06:00I do take offence to people ridiculing us for our choice just as one would take offence to someone criticising your sexual orientation - it's a personal choice
Sexual orientation is not a choice.
Good one, linking to the Tyranny of the Majority, however. I was thinking just that, except this isn't even about the majority. Look at last month; 29 votes cast, the winning restaurant had only 7 votes, and only 16 people turned up. Oh well, such is the nature of FPTP (http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/first_past_the_post.htm). On the other hand, who wants to write an SMF mod to implement STV, AV+, or AMS?
Sorry - I guess more accurately, I should just say 'it's personal', omitting the choice bit. :p Didn't mean to mince words and offend there.
And yeah, I totally agree, having been a big STV supporter when it's been up for vote here. Ugh, so complicated, though. ;.; I is not good with math, or programming. (*hides top student award*) <.< >.>;
: Kithop May 03, 2010, 11:46:58 -06:00Sorry - I guess more accurately, I should just say 'it's personal', omitting the choice bit. :p Didn't mean to mince words and offend there.
And yeah, I totally agree, having been a big STV supporter when it's been up for vote here. Ugh, so complicated, though. ;.; I is not good with math, or programming. (*hides top student award*) <.< >.>;
I too am an STV fan, and am following the UK election with great interest. I have worked on counting the results of the 2005 STV Northern Ireland Assembly election. And yes, I do know, and understand, the mathematical model.
However, I'd prefer a consensus rather than a vote for the meet venue.
: Rukario May 04, 2010, 01:00:24 -06:00
However, I'd prefer a consensus rather than a vote for the meet venue.
Consensus requires active, actual discussion, deliberation, and compromise, though - not whimsical instinctual clicking on a radio button in an online poll. ;) A poll you can't change your mind on after submitting, though, too. o_o; Maybe that would be a nice little starting point...
: Kithop May 04, 2010, 01:05:07 -06:00
: Rukario May 04, 2010, 01:00:24 -06:00
However, I'd prefer a consensus rather than a vote for the meet venue.
Consensus requires active, actual discussion, deliberation, and compromise, though - not whimsical instinctual clicking on a radio button in an online poll. ;) A poll you can't change your mind on after submitting, though, too. o_o; Maybe that would be a nice little starting point...
That's why I want to promote discussion on the matter. Unfortunately, discussions, as you can see here, tend to devolve into dramafests. Kind of like the Northern Ireland Assembly.
STV is great for political scenarios but this is a restaurant outing.
Polling for the dinnermeet worked for years before the forum existed. It's only recently that it has become troublesome thanks to too many options to choose from.
I can understand the importance of stv or concensus if I'm electing someone to run my country for the next five years. This is going out to dinner with friends. Suggesting a location shouldn't mean it gets on the poll, and we shouldn't have 20 things on the poll. I like the idea of having a vegetarian or veg-friendly option each month, but we should have that, one other option and an "I don't care I'm just there to chill" option. That should be how the polls are set up.
We can't please everyone, but we can make as many people happy as possible.
: Carthage May 04, 2010, 02:37:39 -06:00STV is great for political scenarios but this is a restaurant outing.
Thank you!!!! At last, a voice of reason!!!
This isn't geopolitics FFS! We're talking about the earth-shattering decision of where to go for dinner.
I agree with you almost entirely, Kithop, except for one point:
: Kithop May 03, 2010, 10:22:11 -06:00
I don't think we're asking a whole lot here - I'm not saying we have to go to Foundation all the time (I've been once; the nachos are amazing, but yeah - they're complete and utter hipster snobs), or a vegetarian Buddhist-Chinese place, or anything like that - we're not trying to deny meat-eaters anything; we just want to be able to participate, hang out with our friends, and be included. Yeah, places like White Spot may have what - two, three options for us, tops? That's fine; it's something so we're not completely left out. Would you guys treat someone with a legitimate food allergy the same way? 'Oh, sorry - guess you can't come this month.' Voting, while good to get a general feel and guideline, is not the be-all and end-all of decision making. There's a reason 'true' democracy doesn't work, the same as 'true' communism or insert-system-here (see tyranny of the majority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority)), and why we have things like minority rights.
I'm not actually
allergic to seafood, I just
loathe the taste, texture, and smell, to the point that I won't go to a seafood restaurant even if it
does serve non-seafood options. Leaving aside the extremely tiny minority of people who
cannot eat meat products, insisting that we must
never go to places that don't cater to vegetarians in order to be inclusive and not leave you and Star out (are there even any other vegetarians in VFUR? I can't think of any offhand, but I've also not exactly been heavily involved) comes across much like me insisting that we must
never go to a restaurant that only serves seafood to be inclusive and not leave
me out.
Please don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to insinuate here that you refrain from eating meat for stupid reasons and you should Just Get Over It™. I'm trying to point out that you're asking for
special, preferential treatment because of your dietary preferences.
I don't eat seafood, but you don't see
me insisting on banning seafood restaurants, the way you seem to me to be asking for restaurants that don't serve vegetarian options to be banned.
: Ice Karma May 04, 2010, 04:34:37 -06:00
I don't eat seafood, but you don't see me insisting on banning seafood restaurants, the way you seem to me to be asking for restaurants that don't serve vegetarian options to be banned.
I actually have never liked seafood myself either, even long before.. :p So I totally understand, there - but most 'seafood' places even still offer at least one or two things that we can eat. I went to a place that called itself an oyster bar on Salt Spring Island with Star and I had a wonderful pecan-based 'burger' there - granted it was that, nachos, or a salad, but the options were still there. It's really
not that hard and honestly I'm kind of surprised that this has had to become an issue at all, because I find that a restaurant that DOESN'T have at least a single vegetarian option (even if it's a garden salad) is extremely, ludicrously rare.
Actually, I believe I've missed or can't find the original first part of this that started the whole damned thread in the first place... did we actually settle on some bizzaro 'everything-is-made-of-meat' place? <.<; Do they exist? XD I mean, Swiss Chalet is probably the only place I can think of where it's downright next to impossible to get something that's not chicken, covered in chicken
grease gravy, or fried in the oil alongside the chicken, but the one time I went there, they did offer a garden salad that I had, and it was fine..?
I have a terrible memory when it comes to these things. u.u
: Kithop May 04, 2010, 04:46:38 -06:00
Actually, I believe I've missed or can't find the original first part of this that started the whole damned thread in the first place... did we actually settle on some bizzaro 'everything-is-made-of-meat' place? <.<; Do they exist? XD I mean, Swiss Chalet is probably the only place I can think of where it's downright next to impossible to get something that's not chicken, covered in chicken grease gravy, or fried in the oil alongside the chicken, but the one time I went there, they did offer a garden salad that I had, and it was fine..?
I'm pretty sure it was the Red Robin we just went to not having anything suitable for vegetarians on the menu.
Okay, so it's more cross-contamination issues from a shared grill/deep-fryer. :/
My memory isn't exactly the best, but I seem to recall Star mentioning a few times that they used beef tallow or something equally un-vegetarian-friendly in their deep-fryer.
Are you confusing Swiss Chalet (rotisserie chicken) with McDonalds (everything fried in beef tallow) perhaps?
: Kithop May 04, 2010, 05:18:06 -06:00
Okay, so it's more cross-contamination issues from a shared grill/deep-fryer. :/
Cross-contamination of food types (meat, veg, seafood) happens in even some of the best restaurants in the world. The only way to truly guarentee meat/veg/fish-free food is to buy and cook it yourself. Vegetarian and vegan restaurants buy their food from the same suppliers that major meat-serving restaurants do. When some of the supplier ship both meat and veg in the same truck, cross-contamination can occur before the kitchen even factors in to the equation.
Don't get me wrong, I think vegetarians are probably mocked more than they should be (though some bring it on themselves) but this is the reality of food in a global marketplace.
I read somewhere that if you eat any grain products (bread, cereal, etc.) it is literally impossible to not have bits of bugs in your food, if that counts as "meat".
Here we go, the U.S. FDA - I'm sure the Canadian one is similar:
http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/GuidanceDocuments/Sanitation/ucm056174.htm (http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/GuidanceDocuments/Sanitation/ucm056174.htm)
CORNMEAL
Insects
(AOAC 981.19) Average of 1 or more whole insects (or equivalent) per 50 grams
Insect filth
(AOAC 981.19) Average of 25 or more insect fragments per 25 grams
Rodent filth
(AOAC 981.19) Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 25 grams
OR
Average of 1 or more rodent excreta fragment per 50 grams
DEFECT SOURCE: Insects and insect fragments - preharvest and/or post harvest and/or processing insect infestation, Rodent hair and excreta fragments - post harvest and/or processing contamination with animal hair or excreta
SIGNIFICANCE: Aesthetic
WHEAT FLOUR
Insect filth
(AOAC 972.32) Average of 75 or more insect fragments per 50 grams
Rodent filth
(AOAC 972.32) Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 50 grams
DEFECT SOURCE: Insect fragments - preharvest and/or post harvest and/or processing insect infestation, Rodent hair - post harvest and/or processing contamination with animal hair or excreta.
SIGNIFICANCE: Aesthetic
Mmm, cornflakes...
: Unition May 05, 2010, 09:57:43 -06:00
Mmm, cornflakes...
New Kellogg's Corn Flakes contain 60% of your daily recommended intake of rodent excreta.
:p
When I worked in foods class, on average there are 7 insect legs in every single bar of chocolate consumed (from large companies that mass produce, i.e nestle). Because chocolate is made in large open vats. I remember Gritz telling me when he worked at the chocolate factory that the chocolate on top gets hard, and sometimes maggots get in. And in grade six a girl was eating a two-piece milky way bar and it had THREE maggots crawling around inside. I've been paranoid of chocolate ever since, then Gritz's story made it worse. I rarely eat chocolate at all.
Chocolate!
If you are truly afraid of this, as I once was (AS A KID) , I recommend just... eating some bugs :p
Not like off the ground, but chocolate covered ants, crickets... basically anything from a place like this: http://www.hotlix.com/insect_candy/insect_candy.html (http://www.hotlix.com/insect_candy/insect_candy.html)
If you feel you have a phobia that gets in the way of something you want to do (eat chocolate) confronting it in this manner will make it not such a big deal.
BTW most bugs are very high in protein.
: Ember May 05, 2010, 06:22:18 -06:00
BTW most bugs are very high in protein.
I like protein
: Kithop May 03, 2010, 10:22:11 -06:00Many places offer at least a few vegetarian options amongst the standard meat-containing fare, which is cool - we should at least be holding ourselves to that group as to be as inclusive as possible, just as we would expect to be going to places that can accommodate someone with a food allergy (e.g. my dad has celiac and is thus allergic to the gluten found in wheat, oats, and so forth, so he has to be very careful when eating out). I think it's unfair to consider restaurants that are completely, 100% carnivorous in their offerings as candidates for dinner meets just as it would be unfair to go somewhere that serves/cooks everything slathered in peanut butter if we had a few furs that were deathly allergic to peanuts.
Honestly, as someone who has digestive issues that may turn out to be celiac (and god, I hope it's not that, because dietary restrictions would really be anathema to my foodie nature) - if the dinnermeet were held somewhere that didn't have anything I could eat, I'd just skip it that month. It's not the end of the world. Of course, maybe my point of view on that is a little skewed given I don't generally come to dinnermeets anyway, but I don't think people will die if they miss one now and then, you know?
As for vegetarian substitutes being indistinguishable from meat, I have yet to find that to be the case. I'm often told that such and such is indistinguishable from meat, but no. It isn't, sorry. Personally, if I'm going to eat vegetarian food, I'd rather find ways to use vegetables that are true to their vegetably nature rather than have them try to masquerade as something else, but that's just me. Oh, and I love tofu when it's used well. Nom.
I think there's backlash on both sides because there are elements in either that will try to push the other to their way of thinking - I think meat-eaters perceive vegetarians as quietly lording their supposed moral superiority over the rest of us, which doesn't sit well, and vegetarians perceive meat-eaters as thinking of their choice as somehow wrong or unnatural or "wussy", which doesn't sit well either. As ever, I don't think it's fair to paint everyone on either side with the same brush. It's a debate with plenty of straw-manning going on.
: Silvermink May 11, 2010, 11:46:10 -06:00
: Kithop May 03, 2010, 10:22:11 -06:00Many places offer at least a few vegetarian options amongst the standard meat-containing fare, which is cool - we should at least be holding ourselves to that group as to be as inclusive as possible, just as we would expect to be going to places that can accommodate someone with a food allergy (e.g. my dad has celiac and is thus allergic to the gluten found in wheat, oats, and so forth, so he has to be very careful when eating out). I think it's unfair to consider restaurants that are completely, 100% carnivorous in their offerings as candidates for dinner meets just as it would be unfair to go somewhere that serves/cooks everything slathered in peanut butter if we had a few furs that were deathly allergic to peanuts.
Honestly, as someone who has digestive issues that may turn out to be celiac (and god, I hope it's not that, because dietary restrictions would really be anathema to my foodie nature) - if the dinnermeet were held somewhere that didn't have anything I could eat, I'd just skip it that month. It's not the end of the world. Of course, maybe my point of view on that is a little skewed given I don't generally come to dinnermeets anyway, but I don't think people will die if they miss one now and then, you know?
As for vegetarian substitutes being indistinguishable from meat, I have yet to find that to be the case. I'm often told that such and such is indistinguishable from meat, but no. It isn't, sorry. Personally, if I'm going to eat vegetarian food, I'd rather find ways to use vegetables that are true to their vegetably nature rather than have them try to masquerade as something else, but that's just me. Oh, and I love tofu when it's used well. Nom.
I think there's backlash on both sides because there are elements in either that will try to push the other to their way of thinking - I think meat-eaters perceive vegetarians as quietly lording their supposed moral superiority over the rest of us, which doesn't sit well, and vegetarians perceive meat-eaters as thinking of their choice as somehow wrong or unnatural or "wussy", which doesn't sit well either. As ever, I don't think it's fair to paint everyone on either side with the same brush. It's a debate with plenty of straw-manning going on.
You need to try Kithop's and my own vegetarian tofu stuff. Everyone we've ever fed it to said they couldn't tell the difference.
: Star Wonder May 11, 2010, 03:15:55 -06:00You need to try Kithop's and my own vegetarian tofu stuff. Everyone we've ever fed it to said they couldn't tell the difference.
Sure - are we talking a proper double-blinded trial here? ;) How do you texturize it to have the same consistency (no, not being a smartass; I am genuinely curious)?
How far has the "technology" come in terms of imitating different types of meats? It's been a little while since I've tried anything purporting to be exactly like meat, but not all that long.
: Star Wonder May 11, 2010, 03:15:55 -06:00
You need to try Kithop's and my own vegetarian tofu stuff. Everyone we've ever fed it to said they couldn't tell the difference.
Oooh, I wanns to try daaat~ :)
the foundation's food is epic awesome ok :P good prices and its so popular that if you don't get there early you'll be standing outside for a while to get in...
Carthage I'm a bit shocked at you for saying you haven't seen a case of meat allergy since you lived with me for a year and know how pork fucks me over severely. A
nd just to add to this discussion about how hard it can be for people with different eating habits.. try finding a restaurant that has no onions in anything... its almost impossible. Having crohn's disease makes it very hard to eat out. Oddly enough I had to stop going to my vegetarian dinner meets because they were always going to places with spicy food.
But to be really honest... I don't go to the dinner meets any more because of all this stupid drama.
Can't we just go out and have a good time without anyone taking something as insulting and blowing it up ?
I mean one of the reasons we have dinner meets is to HAVE FUN and enjoy our community... instead it's like going back to high school with all the clicks whispering about someone at the other end of the table.
no one can force anyone to eat things they don't like... so I hope suggestions are left as that... SUGGESTIONS..
I just thought of something that might help this situation ... maybe since the weather is getting nicer... we can set something up like a group picnic.. where people bring whatever they want .. from home or restuarnts and we can all have something we like to eat while spending time .. FUN
: velvetkytten May 16, 2010, 03:20:12 -06:00
Carthage I'm a bit shocked at you for saying you haven't seen a case of meat allergy since you lived with me for a year and know how pork fucks me over severely.
Your Crohn's-related trouble digesting meat does not mean you are
allergic to meat. If meat made you break out in hives, say, or start sneezing uncontrollably, or worse yet go into anaphylaxis (think bee stings or peanuts), then you would have a meat allergy.
crippling pain and crippling diarrhea with large amounts of blood... is rather bad .. wouldn't you think ?
if that isnt a allergic reaction.. what is ?
Allergic reaction is the body having an immunological reaction to the proteins in the meat... this means swelling, hives, even anaphylactic shock.
Pain and diarrhea, while pretty horrid in themselves, aren't generally symptoms of an immunological reaction. :)
@Accophox
That doesn't sound like fun at all..
I suffer from IBS, but I have learned to keep it in check. Had some pretty hairy nights in ER though..
Speaking of which, Velvet, what ever happened to your potluck?
carthage moved and I cant afford to host them. I can barely afford to fed myself
I can't imagine it would cost that much to host a potluck, seeing as people bring food, which is the point of a potluck.
We're off topic here, so I'll contact you directly later... maybe I can help. Then the vegetarians can bring vegetarian foods. :P